finshed 2.2 super charged @ 10 psi
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
As similar of a setup as this sounds to a 2.2 eco J, imo it couldn't be more different.
J's don't have MAF sensors, their MAP is never used for fueling, the entire fueling map is an Alpha-N setup. Add the fact that their throttles are cable driven as well.
Edit: reading your post again, I'm guessing you mean physically fitting it on there. What I meant as far as info being out there, I meant as far as actually getting the car to run somewhat properly.
J's don't have MAF sensors, their MAP is never used for fueling, the entire fueling map is an Alpha-N setup. Add the fact that their throttles are cable driven as well.
Edit: reading your post again, I'm guessing you mean physically fitting it on there. What I meant as far as info being out there, I meant as far as actually getting the car to run somewhat properly.
Of course, this is ONLY if they get the reflash.
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Joined: 03-03-06
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
They do convert over from the single MAP & single IAT sensor setup and with the GM Reflash, they convert to a single TMAP sensor that goes on top of the blower and I believe is what is using to help build VE tables since that is the only way to meter air or pressure.
Of course, this is ONLY if they get the reflash.
Of course, this is ONLY if they get the reflash.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
Posts: 10,877
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
Okay, I'm willing to be as helpful as I can be. But this is a web board, and there is only so much you can do with typing.
I have so far:
1. Pointed out that you can expect your stock ECM to be able to safely operate your setup. You shouldn't allow yourself to think it will "figure it out". You should get your fuel control done and stop driving the car before you break it. I thought that was pretty helpful and important.
2. Showed how you had your the vaccuum solenoid connected to the wrong place. You need to move it to the manifold.
3. Described how your MAP sensor has been placed in a location that isn't reading MAP.
4. Discussed that you have put in bigger injectors without changing what is controlling them.
5. Wondered what the actual DTC is that is setting of your CEL so we can understand how to proceed, but you haven't scanned it to tell us.
6. Described what the G85 package actually is, and then told you how to determine what trans you actually have.
Aside from all of that, here is my basic and honest feeling about what you are doing. I have nothing to hide.
It is reckless and poorly (if at all) planned. While it is interesting to see somebody try what you have done, it is obvious to anyone that knows a little bit about engines that you are just charging forward without thinking. I hate to see that, because it means you are going to destroy something, and that is going to be very expensive to you. Good tuners plan every aspect of their projects before they turn a single bolt. You are installing sensors in places that make them useless.
I am not, and have not so far been insulting you. Yet you have made several aggressive and defensive posts about what you are doing. That means you are not interested in hearing peoples warnings. You are only interested in hearing from people that urge you forward. That can only result in failure.
Good tuners fail. I've blown an engine. But they anticipate and plan for it. You are just "waiting to see" what breaks.
The biggest reason I don't like this is because of what it might inspire the young, new tuner to try and do to their perfectly good car. This whole thread is an example of what NOT to do, and I hope people realize that from reading it. Another reason is people with attitudes that do know the problems with this setup are going to flame the hell out of you, and I just love having to deal with that crap.
I have so far:
1. Pointed out that you can expect your stock ECM to be able to safely operate your setup. You shouldn't allow yourself to think it will "figure it out". You should get your fuel control done and stop driving the car before you break it. I thought that was pretty helpful and important.
2. Showed how you had your the vaccuum solenoid connected to the wrong place. You need to move it to the manifold.
3. Described how your MAP sensor has been placed in a location that isn't reading MAP.
4. Discussed that you have put in bigger injectors without changing what is controlling them.
5. Wondered what the actual DTC is that is setting of your CEL so we can understand how to proceed, but you haven't scanned it to tell us.
6. Described what the G85 package actually is, and then told you how to determine what trans you actually have.
Aside from all of that, here is my basic and honest feeling about what you are doing. I have nothing to hide.
It is reckless and poorly (if at all) planned. While it is interesting to see somebody try what you have done, it is obvious to anyone that knows a little bit about engines that you are just charging forward without thinking. I hate to see that, because it means you are going to destroy something, and that is going to be very expensive to you. Good tuners plan every aspect of their projects before they turn a single bolt. You are installing sensors in places that make them useless.
I am not, and have not so far been insulting you. Yet you have made several aggressive and defensive posts about what you are doing. That means you are not interested in hearing peoples warnings. You are only interested in hearing from people that urge you forward. That can only result in failure.
Good tuners fail. I've blown an engine. But they anticipate and plan for it. You are just "waiting to see" what breaks.
The biggest reason I don't like this is because of what it might inspire the young, new tuner to try and do to their perfectly good car. This whole thread is an example of what NOT to do, and I hope people realize that from reading it. Another reason is people with attitudes that do know the problems with this setup are going to flame the hell out of you, and I just love having to deal with that crap.
Anyways...
I can understand the "pioneering" part of it but there are still ALOT of common car knowledge that should go with it. Just cause you're the first one to do something doesn't mean that you should neglect the common thinking of building a car.
Matt, I hate to say it, has proved or stated nothing of importance in this whole thread but yet he has said "I have ran more boost than anyone here" and use DSM referencing to a damn Cobalt. I seriously am disguested by people who think cause they own a car that they know everything about ALL vehicles.
It just doesn't seem like there is any car that is brought into this. It's a "if it blows, it blows" attitude but ultimately, it doesn't get you anywhere. Your claims to of wanting to blow it up just so you can "test out" the engine and put in a built one...man...with these types of finances, why did you buy a EVO or an STi? I mean, Cobalts are nice and everything but you guys are acting like money isn't of an importance. It just seems ass back-wards. Next thing you know, Paris Hilton will be driving a Toyota Carolla while eating at the local burger shack...
But whatever. People will take this as "downing" his achievement of doing it...but people REALLY need to realize that this is just one step of the process. Anyone can bolt on anything to a engine but it's making it run correctly that's another story. And sorry, running 10s and 9s (or lower) a/f ratio is not running correctly NOR is it comphensating.
"Unsolved Mysteries"
*plays theme music*
Last edited by NJHK; Apr 10, 2007 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
IMO if the ecu was gonna fail, it would have done so already. After all those rubber shows and such. Also, is it just me or does it seem like hes not giving it full throtle???? i dunno. My 2.2 just sounds louder in the higher rpms i guess.
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I hope your talking about the motor...The ECU doesn't fail and won't fail it just is a sadly mistaken computer and has no real clue what is going on. It doesn't realize a supercharger is bolted on the top and just thinks the motor is acting like a retart.
I'm old school
Joined: 02-16-05
Posts: 6,905
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From: Nashville
Theres nothing wrong with the ECM. It's not going to fail. What's going to happen is going to be heat related. He's going to burn a ring or valve. Either a piston is going to melt/break a land, or a valve is going to burn and seize.
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Joined: 03-03-06
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
That much carbon and unburnt fuel can't be good for valves. He has to be getting spark blowout. LSJs get it when the a/f dips to 10-1.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-26-06
Posts: 704
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From: Louisville Kentucky
is it just me or does it seem like hes not giving it full throtle???? i dunno. My 2.2 just sounds louder in the higher rpms i guess.
no i havent full throtled it yet its all been at half throtle. and burst of squirts.
this is the last time i will say this. this is a project and im figuring it out. besides how in the hell are you going to tune it if we dont know what its doing. you cant speculate every thing. im working on puting the smt7 on and going to try to control the injectors and map sensor if all that fails then it fails so what. THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX!!! and move on to the next solution im looking at this as a group project with everyones help to figure this out. if any one has any susjestions on what to try im down. or any resurch and design on parts im willing.
no i havent full throtled it yet its all been at half throtle. and burst of squirts.
this is the last time i will say this. this is a project and im figuring it out. besides how in the hell are you going to tune it if we dont know what its doing. you cant speculate every thing. im working on puting the smt7 on and going to try to control the injectors and map sensor if all that fails then it fails so what. THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX!!! and move on to the next solution im looking at this as a group project with everyones help to figure this out. if any one has any susjestions on what to try im down. or any resurch and design on parts im willing.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 10-26-06
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
From: Louisville Kentucky
what do you mean ? ps i cant tell you what code i have becouse autozone cant read them for some reason. and im not paying the dealer. for one im smarter then they are at least around here that is.
What parts have you had to swap out to do this and where did you get them? I'm sorry if you already answered this question but this thread has become too long to search for it.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 10-26-06
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
From: Louisville Kentucky
i changed the alt bracket and added the intake bracket and dampener and ideler pully and of corse the intake and supercharger 2 gaskets intake and SCer gasket and made a flat plate with a hole in it for the throtle body. PLEASE DONT ANY ONE TRY THIS intill theres tuning or you will be out alot of money. i dont drive the car every day so im slowly working on the probs. with this but i can tell u if you went full stand alone there would be know problem. ps if you need a pic look under my gallery.
New Member
Joined: 04-06-07
Posts: 18
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From: Kentucky
For shizzle my nizzle...I have one hundred percizzle agrizzle.
Anyways...
I can understand the "pioneering" part of it but there are still ALOT of common car knowledge that should go with it. Just cause you're the first one to do something doesn't mean that you should neglect the common thinking of building a car.
Matt, I hate to say it, has proved or stated nothing of importance in this whole thread but yet he has said "I have ran more boost than anyone here" and use DSM referencing to a damn Cobalt. I seriously am disguested by people who think cause they own a car that they know everything about ALL vehicles.
It just doesn't seem like there is any car that is brought into this. It's a "if it blows, it blows" attitude but ultimately, it doesn't get you anywhere. Your claims to of wanting to blow it up just so you can "test out" the engine and put in a built one...man...with these types of finances, why did you buy a EVO or an STi? I mean, Cobalts are nice and everything but you guys are acting like money isn't of an importance. It just seems ass back-wards. Next thing you know, Paris Hilton will be driving a Toyota Carolla while eating at the local burger shack...
But whatever. People will take this as "downing" his achievement of doing it...but people REALLY need to realize that this is just one step of the process. Anyone can bolt on anything to a engine but it's making it run correctly that's another story. And sorry, running 10s and 9s (or lower) a/f ratio is not running correctly NOR is it comphensating.
Don't worry, you'll see it on the Next episode of:
"Unsolved Mysteries"
*plays theme music*
Anyways...
I can understand the "pioneering" part of it but there are still ALOT of common car knowledge that should go with it. Just cause you're the first one to do something doesn't mean that you should neglect the common thinking of building a car.
Matt, I hate to say it, has proved or stated nothing of importance in this whole thread but yet he has said "I have ran more boost than anyone here" and use DSM referencing to a damn Cobalt. I seriously am disguested by people who think cause they own a car that they know everything about ALL vehicles.
It just doesn't seem like there is any car that is brought into this. It's a "if it blows, it blows" attitude but ultimately, it doesn't get you anywhere. Your claims to of wanting to blow it up just so you can "test out" the engine and put in a built one...man...with these types of finances, why did you buy a EVO or an STi? I mean, Cobalts are nice and everything but you guys are acting like money isn't of an importance. It just seems ass back-wards. Next thing you know, Paris Hilton will be driving a Toyota Carolla while eating at the local burger shack...
But whatever. People will take this as "downing" his achievement of doing it...but people REALLY need to realize that this is just one step of the process. Anyone can bolt on anything to a engine but it's making it run correctly that's another story. And sorry, running 10s and 9s (or lower) a/f ratio is not running correctly NOR is it comphensating.
Don't worry, you'll see it on the Next episode of:
"Unsolved Mysteries"
*plays theme music*
the whole I run more boost thing has to do with the fact that i know how to tune a ******* car NOT the fact that HEY I OWN A DSM I KNOW ALL CARS
and i said "I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE COBALTS IM A DSMER"
and no one else has the ******* go-nads to try this **** for themself and everyone is talking **** about THIS IS THE WRONG WAY well then **** do it YOURSELF the RIGHT WAY and then make a post about it.
since its no one elses money i think it doesnt matter we can blow up anything that we want to. not that we are intending on blowing it up by neglecting fuel managment BUT if it happens then so what.
and who needs EVO STI's when u have crotch rockets.
I hope you serisouly dont think that 8 or 9 AFR is tuned in. thats just what the stock ECU is puttin out. BUT AT LEAST ITS NOT LEAN AND ITS POURING FUEL IN TO TRY TO COMPENSATE!
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Joined: 09-29-06
Posts: 1,043
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From: Marquette, MI
Yellow,
Good start. All I can say is wow! This discussion reminds me of the J-Body one when the first car to be turbo'd showed up. Your the first on the forum to do this so dont get pissed when people flame (they always do), point out obvious problems, and have different opinions on tuning. There are some bugs and things you need to work out yet. There is a lot of information and help available for similar setups. THe smt-7 should work ok for your setup. There is a guy about 6 hours from here that has been running a home brew turbo setup on his 2.2l for about 9 months. He is also using the SMT to tune it. He has tamed the stock ecu and his car is running very smoothly from the last conversation I had with him. Try to get some tuning done and take it in steps. Once its all done, setup reliably and running correctly there will only be more people that are going to attempt it. If you plan on pushing the limits of the engine to see how much it can handle do it once you get tuned correctly. So the rest of the guys with a big ? over there heads have a decent starting point to look at. As far as the Maft translator being used as mentioned early is probably out of th question. The Maft trans has been discontinued and the smt has way more options and capabilities. Some other items that you can use to help tune fuel would be the aeromotive fmu with an external pump.
Good start. All I can say is wow! This discussion reminds me of the J-Body one when the first car to be turbo'd showed up. Your the first on the forum to do this so dont get pissed when people flame (they always do), point out obvious problems, and have different opinions on tuning. There are some bugs and things you need to work out yet. There is a lot of information and help available for similar setups. THe smt-7 should work ok for your setup. There is a guy about 6 hours from here that has been running a home brew turbo setup on his 2.2l for about 9 months. He is also using the SMT to tune it. He has tamed the stock ecu and his car is running very smoothly from the last conversation I had with him. Try to get some tuning done and take it in steps. Once its all done, setup reliably and running correctly there will only be more people that are going to attempt it. If you plan on pushing the limits of the engine to see how much it can handle do it once you get tuned correctly. So the rest of the guys with a big ? over there heads have a decent starting point to look at. As far as the Maft translator being used as mentioned early is probably out of th question. The Maft trans has been discontinued and the smt has way more options and capabilities. Some other items that you can use to help tune fuel would be the aeromotive fmu with an external pump.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
Posts: 10,877
Likes: 2
From: East Brunswick, NJ
the whole I run more boost thing has to do with the fact that i know how to tune a ******* car NOT the fact that HEY I OWN A DSM I KNOW ALL CARS
and i said "I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE COBALTS IM A DSMER"
and no one else has the ******* go-nads to try this **** for themself and everyone is talking **** about THIS IS THE WRONG WAY well then **** do it YOURSELF the RIGHT WAY and then make a post about it.
since its no one elses money i think it doesnt matter we can blow up anything that we want to. not that we are intending on blowing it up by neglecting fuel managment BUT if it happens then so what.
and who needs EVO STI's when u have crotch rockets.
I hope you serisouly dont think that 8 or 9 AFR is tuned in. thats just what the stock ECU is puttin out. BUT AT LEAST ITS NOT LEAN AND ITS POURING FUEL IN TO TRY TO COMPENSATE!
and i said "I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE COBALTS IM A DSMER"
and no one else has the ******* go-nads to try this **** for themself and everyone is talking **** about THIS IS THE WRONG WAY well then **** do it YOURSELF the RIGHT WAY and then make a post about it.
since its no one elses money i think it doesnt matter we can blow up anything that we want to. not that we are intending on blowing it up by neglecting fuel managment BUT if it happens then so what.
and who needs EVO STI's when u have crotch rockets.
I hope you serisouly dont think that 8 or 9 AFR is tuned in. thats just what the stock ECU is puttin out. BUT AT LEAST ITS NOT LEAN AND ITS POURING FUEL IN TO TRY TO COMPENSATE!
The crotch rocket statement (once again) made no sense and evidentally, you didn't understand why I said what I said.
I know he isn't "tuned" but even him driving around half throttle and reaching such rich mixtures IS NOT GOOD.
And seriously, you need to read a dictionairy:
Originally Posted by Websters
Main Entry: comˇpenˇsate
Pronunciation: 'käm-p&n-"sAt, -"pen-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -satˇed; -satˇing
Etymology: Latin compensatus, past participle of compensare, frequentative of compendere
transitive verb
1 : to be equivalent to : COUNTERBALANCE
2 : to make an appropriate and usually counterbalancing payment to <compensate the victims for their loss>
Pronunciation: 'käm-p&n-"sAt, -"pen-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -satˇed; -satˇing
Etymology: Latin compensatus, past participle of compensare, frequentative of compendere
transitive verb
1 : to be equivalent to : COUNTERBALANCE
2 : to make an appropriate and usually counterbalancing payment to <compensate the victims for their loss>
I would go back in this thread and do a mega p0wning but I'm on vacation and playing with my son...which is far more important than you.
I'm done with you. Do what you want to his car. Quit coming here for approval.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 10-26-06
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
From: Louisville Kentucky
dude why are you acting like a ******* !!!!!!!! " NJH-gay" im not asking for any approval.
since somepeople are so stuck on what was said and what i have done, this is my last post about this or any related subjects there will BE NO MORE INFO ABOUT THIS SO ALL CAN GO **** THEM SELFS. those who are in support with this out come this does not pertain to you.
sorry but we have 22 pages of bullshit and some real *******'s who cant get it through there thick ass head this is a working project. at least i didit and dident talk about it.
since somepeople are so stuck on what was said and what i have done, this is my last post about this or any related subjects there will BE NO MORE INFO ABOUT THIS SO ALL CAN GO **** THEM SELFS. those who are in support with this out come this does not pertain to you.
sorry but we have 22 pages of bullshit and some real *******'s who cant get it through there thick ass head this is a working project. at least i didit and dident talk about it.
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