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Secondary Air Injection on late production 2006 L61's

2.2L L61 Performance Tech 16 valve 145 hp EcoTec with 155 lb-ft of torque

Secondary Air Injection on late production 2006 L61's

Old 01-24-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
Your absolutely right, however, my car is my daily driver like so many other people, and I lack the vacation time to drive up to maine to get it reflashed-------but when you put performance headers on it, that "big hole in your manifold ....hehehehe sorry" will not be there anymore.....

UPDATE: I pulled off my SAI at the header, it started up with NO CEL, which means the o2 sensor in the exhaust doesn't give a crap if its working or not.
This is what I disconnected:


and this is what it sounded like with the hole in the manifold....though I couldn't feel much of any exhaust coming out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMUZa4IMbwo

Interesting, but I wouldn't want to leave any 'holes' in my exhaust for a number of reasons.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tonio5555 View Post
Interesting, but I wouldn't want to leave any 'holes' in my exhaust for a number of reasons.
when you get the new performance headers there won't be a hole. the hole for the SAI is in the flange of the stock headers...so new headers on there there won't be a hole there unless you make one.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:49 PM
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Can you clarify... what exactly is your setup? So you got an aftermarket header and aftermarket intake, i.e. no SAI "holes" anywhere?
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarbae View Post
Can you clarify... what exactly is your setup? So you got an aftermarket header and aftermarket intake, i.e. no SAI "holes" anywhere?
Yep, I have the ebay CAI, and I completely removed the small plastic/rubber hose that goes down the left side of the motor to the SAI air pump. So now I have:

<br></br>SAI pump ---->---hose---->---SAI valve/pressure sensor-->---flexpipe--->---not connected to headers
<br></br>and with that setup I didn't get a CEL either of the 2 cold starts I did.

I am getting a complete exhaust system from pacesetter for my birthday in 2 weeks, so when I take everything apart and put it back together I'll make a video of what the setup is physically. But yes, with aftermarket headers, there is no SAI "holes" anywhere, and the SAI system still is physically there, but not pumping any air into the exhaust manifold.

I don't doubt there can be a chip made to imitate an SAI system working through the voltages should someone with electrical engineering experience choose to meet up with me one of these days, but the only pitfall in this entire modification is if the o2 sensor does register the missing air in the exhaust and sets a CEL (it didn't after the 2 cold starts obviously) but if it does thats the only serious problem I can think of that would stop this from working, everything else can be imitated or easily modified to eliminate any CEL.

Seriously if there is any electrical engineers around here that can help me design it on a breadboard, we can make a simple chip to eliminate the entire SAI system through imitation of voltages the pcm senses/puts through the system.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
Yep, I have the ebay CAI, and I completely removed the small plastic/rubber hose that goes down the left side of the motor to the SAI air pump. So now I have:

<br></br>SAI pump ---->---hose---->---SAI valve/pressure sensor-->---flexpipe--->---not connected to headers
<br></br>and with that setup I didn't get a CEL either of the 2 cold starts I did.
Well, no ****, the SAI system is still sucking air through the hole in your header, it's just unfiltered. Removing the system entirely (i.e., replacing header), will throw codes like crazy until you reflash.

In the meantime, do yourself a favor and stick a breather filter on that hole. You don't want any unfiltered air going anywhere.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:06 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Sarbae View Post
Well, no ****, the SAI system is still sucking air through the hole in your header, it's just unfiltered. Removing the system entirely (i.e., replacing header), will throw codes like crazy until you reflash.

In the meantime, do yourself a favor and stick a breather filter on that hole. You don't want any unfiltered air going anywhere.
This shows me you don't fully understand of how the SAI system works, I'll scan you the pages from the GM Service Manual if u want

ok 2 things.......#1, the air pump is sucking air from the bottom front of your motor, unless heated air is traveling downward in the middle of winter, the only thing thats coming OUT of the top point of the SAI system is air that was sucked at the bottom...but you know the laws of physics live my not apply where you live.

I did not remove the system entirely, please read what I wrote, I only disconnected the entry point of the SAI system to the header....everything is still there and working, just not putting air into the headers. Which means the system can be there and functioning, but you can put performance headers on your car w/o any CEL coming on since the o2 Sensor in the exhaust doesn't pick up the difference.

do yourself a favor and stick a breather filter on that hole, you don't want any unfiltered air going anywhere
Yes because lord knows I want to sound like a POS civic when I drive around........I put it back together that night dude...chill out man....its working so far, if you'd like me to explain to you how the system works so you get what I did I'd be happy to. Just take a chill, I've seen too many threads where everyone gets all pissy about something....its rediculous, maybe I should take you outside and hose you down....wait...water shortage in Las Vegas haha

Last edited by avenger09123; 01-25-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:24 AM
  #257  
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i don't know what people are not understanding. i understood it many posts ago. but from what i can tell others aren't accepting that you just removed the hose off the exhaust and replaced the header. Everything else is there. the pump is still pumping air. just out the end of the open tube now. and not into the header. since there is no spot to put the header. i was kinda wondering if you could do that when i first read the post but i was unable to try cause i don't got it equipped on mine.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by j.ho7 View Post
i don't know what people are not understanding. i understood it many posts ago. but from what i can tell others aren't accepting that you just removed the hose off the exhaust and replaced the header. Everything else is there. the pump is still pumping air. just out the end of the open tube now. and not into the header. since there is no spot to put the header. i was kinda wondering if you could do that when i first read the post but i was unable to try cause i don't got it equipped on mine.
thankyou......literally I know I don't explain things very well.....but thankyou.....now I know I'm not that crazy......

Although I did run into an interesting thing today, my SAI pump fired up for about 15 seconds before the valve opened, not just the 5 second cold start thing........interesting......I wonder if my idea fails, all of us with SAI can get performanec headers and no CEL anyways, you just have to restart your car after it's reach your idle coolant temperature (me 189) because it won't fire the SAI for such a thing, therefore eliminating the SAI error code......

Last edited by avenger09123; 01-27-2008 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:00 AM
  #259  
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While I do in fact understand what you have done, I am disturbed that you have choosen to drive around with an open hole in you stock manifold "until" your new one shows up. That is not wise.

The fact that your CEL hasn't triggered yet doesn't mean that it won't. What will you do then? Just drive around with it on? Maybe it turned on for something completely unrelated, and now you won't know because you can't take it to a shop to get scanned.

As for the "chip" to simulate the air pump, that actually is a good idea. And it probably doesn't even need to be a chip, just a resistor to simulate the load of the motor. Find out if that circuit is a 12 or 5 volt one. Then find the pin-out diagram of the harness. There are two ways to get the right resistor. The first would be to simply measure ohms at the motor terminals. It wouldn't be completely accurate since the resistance changes once the motor is spinning, but it would be close. The best way would be to connect the motor to a bench power supply with an amp meter. Then do the math to find the motors operating resistance.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfcent View Post
While I do in fact understand what you have done, I am disturbed that you have choosen to drive around with an open hole in you stock manifold "until" your new one shows up. That is not wise.
The fact that your CEL hasn't triggered yet doesn't mean that it won't. What will you do then? Just drive around with it on? Maybe it turned on for something completely unrelated, and now you won't know because you can't take it to a shop to get scanned.
As for the "chip" to simulate the air pump, that actually is a good idea. And it probably doesn't even need to be a chip, just a resistor to simulate the load of the motor. Find out if that circuit is a 12 or 5 volt one. Then find the pin-out diagram of the harness. There are two ways to get the right resistor. The first would be to simply measure ohms at the motor terminals. It wouldn't be completely accurate since the resistance changes once the motor is spinning, but it would be close. The best way would be to connect the motor to a bench power supply with an amp meter. Then do the math to find the motors operating resistance.

I've already said this to someone else-"I put it back together" So that means I am NOT running around with an open hole in my stock manifold....jesus, I don't know how to make it any simpler to people that keep baggin on me for having a hole there....I mean all it is, is 2 bolts.....not that hard to reassemble.....

And yes the fact that my CEL hasn't been triggered doesn't mean it won't, I agree, thats why this theory is being tested.....its not anything definite yet. And if it does turn on for something else....won't the scantool show the multiple codes instead of just the latest one?I'm not much of an OBDII guy, but it makes reasonable sense they would design a system that can read all the CEL codes instead of just the last one you got. So what's stopping me from getting it scanned any time I want ?

However I do have an idea that because the CEL would kick on for a part failure or exhaust blockage in the SAI system, it is another theory of mine that if you start it, let it warm up to where the sai isn't needed (i.e. idle @ 189 degrees F coolant for me) and then turn off completely and restart your car, the SAI system would not register an error because it would not be run since the motors already warmed up....

Unfortunaly, we'd need more than just the air pump imitated, the valve at the top has a pressure sensor in it - so if we eliminate the pump and the pressure sensor registers 0 while the "pump" is running, we'll get a CEL for a bad pressure sensor. so we'd need something to imitate the entire system.

We don't need the resistance value for the Air Pump because the system only registers if it's there and working or not so the 5v or 12v is a big deal, its not a variable speed pump so Ohms is not a big deal, however I don't know how the pressure sensor or valve operate, so that is something I'll have to find out..... below is a picture of the entire system we're going to need to imitate....

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Old 01-28-2008, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
This shows me you don't fully understand of how the SAI system works, I'll scan you the pages from the GM Service Manual if u want
I guess not.. I would actually really appreciate that if you get a chance. Where is the air pump?

Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
Yes because lord knows I want to sound like a POS civic when I drive around
A small breather filter is not going to make any noise, especially if, as you say, there's no air being drawn through it. It's just not wise to leave any open holes... I thought you had disconnected the hose and just left it there.

Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
maybe I should take you outside and hose you down....wait...water shortage in Las Vegas haha
We've been getting plenty of rain up here in LA, for the first time in years.... come down here and show me what you've got.

Last edited by Sarbae; 01-28-2008 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:34 AM
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Haha I heard cali is getting dumped on. its not as bad out here, except the ground doesn't absorb water out here, so just flooding, no mudslides for us.

yeah i'll photocopy the pages out tomorrow for the SAI system and make it into a pdf here. for everyone to take home if they want. Mind you guys I have an 07 so some parts may be a little different than the 05-06's

Update: I got the pics.....but I don't know any website where I can upload the whole file, cobaltss.net wants to resize it to 500x720 or some bullshit, and you can't see anything.........

Last edited by avenger09123; 01-29-2008 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:05 AM
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can anyone send me a link to a cai for a our cobalts that have the sai? my search button isnt working
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:13 AM
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Hahaha im one of the lucky 06 cobalts out there.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brianhardcore View Post
can anyone send me a link to a cai for a our cobalts that have the sai? my search button isnt working
dude, hate to tell you this, but all of us with SAI sitll have the standard cold air intake from ebay or K&N or whatnot, some of us have pulled the tubing all the way down to the air pump. some of us just hang it on the bolt where the stock air box used to sit next to the suspension tower.

it won't hurt anything as long as you don't suck in a large piece of dirt or rock in the first 60 seconds of driving, however over the lifetime of the pump it might be a little bit shorter because your sucking in unfiltered air. Don't know, I've had mine off for 15k miles and its doing fine so far, and I live in the windy desert.

Sorry man, we're just not a big enough market to have them made for us.....

what? OrngBalt, how'd you get it flashed away? I'm not anywhere near the guy who does it on the east coast, where'd you go?

Last edited by avenger09123; 02-15-2008 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Brianhardcore View Post
can anyone send me a link to a cai for a our cobalts that have the sai? my search button isnt working

listen. buy any intake u want. it'll work. all u do, is disconnect the rubber 90* angle to the stock air box, and put a breather filter on it. ta da. 7.00 from auto zone. fixed the solution. check my gallery for pictures, i have SAI, i have a breather on the hose that goes to the SAI sensor box behind the motor.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt_driver View Post
listen. buy any intake u want. it'll work. all u do, is disconnect the rubber 90* angle to the stock air box, and put a breather filter on it. ta da. 7.00 from auto zone. fixed the solution. check my gallery for pictures, i have SAI, i have a breather on the hose that goes to the SAI sensor box behind the motor.
yours is behind the motor? mines at the bottom in the front....weird.....
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:10 AM
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when i installed my intake i just removed that hose and i havent had one problem...
it runs perfect!
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by KyleMinnis View Post
when i installed my intake i just removed that hose and i havent had one problem...
it runs perfect!
sweet dude, welcome to the CAI club
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by KyleMinnis View Post
when i installed my intake i just removed that hose and i havent had one problem...
it runs perfect!
Don't forget to put on a breather filter!
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:47 AM
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my car has SAI and when i put my ingen CAI on i just removed the force feeder hose and now when im warming her up, she makes an interesting purring noise which actually sounds pretty cool.
yee
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:42 AM
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yeah it does sound pretty cool. Everyone says to put a breather filter over it....I live in the desert where dust is a constant and when it rains, it pours, but if you sit still till the sai shuts off you don't have to worry about sucking up anything dirty or watery. I removed my hose too....no problems so far.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by avenger09123 View Post
yeah it does sound pretty cool. Everyone says to put a breather filter over it....I live in the desert where dust is a constant and when it rains, it pours, but if you sit still till the sai shuts off you don't have to worry about sucking up anything dirty or watery. I removed my hose too....no problems so far.
the question is, why NOT put a breather on there? it's just not a good idea to let unfiltered air get anywhere...
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarbae View Post
the question is, why NOT put a breather on there? it's just not a good idea to let unfiltered air get anywhere...
well dude....to be honest...I could care less. Unless I suck up a mouse, the system will work until it wears out...and considering its before the intake and after the exhaust....it won't screw up the motor or the catalytic at all...its not really a big concern for me to go get one.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:29 PM
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Lookin for a header

I Have A 07' Cobalt Ls and I'm Looking For A Header that meets California emissions...
Header w/ Provision for Air Pump Emission...
Like the stock one has...
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