ain't that the truth, though I have played with my tune and setup quite a bit and only hit about 10400-10600 hz at 440whp so far.

 

It goes....runnnnnnnn bitch runnnnnnnnnnnnn.

ZZP, where all your monies are belong to us.

 

i think i have a log somewhere of me hitting 10,6xx somewhere on the tvs with the 2.75 ring

it's not that the car won't do it, or can't do it. it is a matter of the person building the car if they want to do it.

me, i'll do it all day.
i know for a fact 06black is over 11k hz on his car.

 

you sound like you have no experience. please stop posting.

 

Who r joo. Joo iz no toon-r

 

Where is da tuner?

 

if one compensates for the increase in maf hz as rpm increases. one will be able to hit the desired afr and run with it. if one does not set that last cell correctly it will go leaner. i believe this is what tim is trying to get at. just didn't go into detail about it. so it is a yes and no answer.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=29

for more reference.

 

I don't know how to say this without being a dick but here goes.

I don't know what you are trying to say Area but Tim was correct and you seem to not understand how the PCM works.

For one, the PCM moves the fuel in chunks. In other words 9000hz is no different than 9030hz. The PCM only has a set number of cells to use for fueling and although the MAF is basically infinitely variable, the PCM is not.

2nd, the last cell in the PCM is the last cell. Once you hit it fueling is set to an exact point.

This right here "it plays into each other. the 11k cell is used to carry the rest of the load perse' above this. it get's done all day every day on turbo lsj's with a good sized turbo. hell i am close to the end of it with the tvs, and will be over this mark with new parts coming.

log maf vs error % or maf vs afr which ever you chose to do. do the usual maf scaling. then set the 11k cell to a desired air flow number and run with it. you are stuck at this, and it's not a bad thing. 500whp can be made, and has been made doing this. if the wastegate freaks, or boost controller freaks. hold on, because you have no built this level of error compensation into it, and can't. so you are at the mercy of these two things to work right and make life happy."

is a bunch of ****. I'm not even going to comment on it's accuracy. I'm just saying it makes not sense. It's a bunch of words and quotes from PCM tables that have nothing to do with the subject. You're posts bother me because you overcomplicate very simple ideas seemingly to come accross as knowing something that others don't. This is followed by people who don't understand what-so-ever posting pics bowing. This isn't a good thing. The readers are now less intelligent for having read the post.

But back to the PCM. So say the 2nd to last cell is 10,800 and the last one is 11,100.

The PCM doesn't use hz in 1 hz increments as I stated above. In 1/2 meg PCM boxes (used to 2004) the PCM saw frequency in 125hz increments. So it would 'click' more duty cycle every time the hz were 125 higher. If it was in between it rounded to the nearest 125 hz increment. Newer 1 meg boxes I'm guessing have more resolution. So maybe they round in 75 or 50 hz increments but I can assure you they round.

Now using above if you are at 10,800 or 10,830 it's going to give the same amount of fuel. It will round to 10,800 and use what you have in that table. If it's in between 10,800 and 11,100 it will round to some increment (whatever it's resolution is) and extrapolate from that point a number in between what you have loaded in the 10,800 and 11,100 tables. Once you get to 11,100 the PCM is done adding fuel. Doesn't matter if you flow more air, it will not add any more fuel EXACTLY as Tim indicated. There is no PCM work around, despite the rumors. You cannot program the PCM differently. You cannot change the MAX MAF. There is nothing you can do to 'fix' the problem in the PCM. You have to use an external solution to change the MAF itself and how it reads.

Now there is a slightly ghetto way to help the situation. You can program the last cell in the PCM too high. This means that once you pass 10,800 the car will run too rich with peak richness being at 11,100. Then as you pass 11,100; say 11,300 when the car is flowing more air the car is leaning out because you're moving more air without adding more fuel. Eventually you get to the right AF ratio again and then as you flow even more air you go lean. This lets you sqeak a little more out of a maxed MAF situation but nothing that would let you get to 500WHP on a MAF maxed below 400WHP.

 

Area, not understand how the PCM works....? Oh man, this will be great.

 

See Area, ZZP is right, I concur with what Stu says

Where is your damn reply, lol

 

Zoomer, what is your grudge against people that tune? I completely understand what Area is getting at. If you disagree (like you have shown) that's fine, but your manor of wording is not what I would expect. Area was doing constructive replies w/o resorting to "...complete bullshit", no need to stoop to what you have said is un-needed. (people saying "FTW", Woot")

I told you guys at ZZP I was done arguing, so I'm not going to go any further than what I just said which is more than I should have

 

Zoomer, what is your grudge against people that tune? I completely understand what Area is getting at. If you disagree (like you have shown) that's fine, but your manor of wording is not what I would expect. Area was doing constructive replies w/o resorting to "...complete bullshit", no need to stoop to what you have said is un-needed. (people saying "FTW", Woot")

I told you guys at ZZP I was done arguing, so I'm not going to go any further than what I just said which is more than I should have

 

lets not start an argument on this thread

Congrats on the kit, have been following this thread and looks like it turned out well

 

you know what uzoma. i can't reply with what im thinking right now, because you and other people will report and i will get banned.

you are quick to jump my ass for no reason at all when, A. you didn't read the post. B. are quick to judge someone who does not follow your every move. C. finds other vendors a lot more helpful.

i have tried being nice about this whole situation.
i went back and edited posts, and worded some nicer than originally intended to avoid all this. and you come out at directly attack me.

 

There's no grudge against "people that tune." The problem with Area is that he loves to post little comments all over the forum suggesting that he knows the solution to every problem that gets mentioned. In the case of the maxed MAF, Area is incorrect. From what he posted in this thread, "what happens when the maf is between cells?" suggests that he thinks that the ECM will extrapolate or calculate airflow rates beyond the last cell. If this is what he believes, then he is wrong. It does not continue. If 11,100 is set to 400 g/s, then 11,500 will also be considered 400 g/s by the ECM, as will 12,000 Hz, etc... Having said this, yes you can set the 11,100 cell to 425 g/s and give yourself a little room to turn up the boost. However, this is a sloppy fix at best. On a turbo 3800 or other motor that has a relatively flat MAF curve as you run through the RPMs, you can get a decent tune in this manner, as long as you kept the boost at the same level. Unfortunately, LSJs do not have a flat airflow curve. This means that if you MAX the MAF at 20psi, so you bump up the last cell and turn the boost up to 23psi, it will only work properly in one part of the power band. For example, you may be at 11,400 Hz at 7000 RPM and the tune is set right at 11.5 to 1 AFR. Unfortunately, when you are at 11,100 Hz at 6200RPM, the A/F will be 10.8 to 1. In other words, to make the tune correct at 11,400 Hz, you must sacrifice the tune at 11,100 Hz. There is no way around it until you add electronics to decrease the MAF frequency or install a MAF with a higher airflow at 11,100 Hz. In this case we already installed the MAF in a 3.5" tube, but that can only go so far. Our MAF solution will allow people to use a 3" MAF tube and still have potential for 500WHP before maxing the MAF.

I'd also like to add that on a supercharged setup, or a turbo setup without adjustable boost control, you can go in modify the EQ ratio chart to level out the A/F ratio. However, changing the boost even 2psi will then throw off the whole tune.

 

i am not incorrect. it has been done long before you guys started pushing real power out of the lsj.

the maf itself is not the problem. the hard code of the ecm itself is.

what you, uzoma and the rest of the people are doing is digging deeper into what i typed already. i, 9 times out of 10 just post a generalization to get the idea's flowing. i have never come out and given a direct answer.

no, go back and actually read what i typed.

i am not here to give the 100% exact answer. im here to make others work for it, just like the rest of us did.

 

Your words. You are. Please stop posting.

 

Ok... no way am i looking through 24 pages, pics and vids, Where they be?

 

They should chang the name of this site to zoomer.net Only vendor that can do this ****

 

uh oh... Who gave zoomer the keyboard again?

 

god, and this is why css.net started to suck, bcuz everyone insulted/dumbed down all the threads where anyone posted anything intelligent and then all the people with any smarts moved to eco-power forums


k, i have read my fair share of tuning books, but have not modified a cobalt tune past the basic torque management stuff

but i was wondering, why doesn't anyone convert to a complete SD tune?

basically anyone that is above 500 rwhp that owns an F-body/GTO is running an SD tune why cant cobalts?

 

if the end user changes the boost level. yes this is a problem. it is no different than running 40psi on a turbo car with a 3 bar map sensor.
yes it will run like ass between 28-40psi. if the car is tuned for 40psi on that set up and is happy at that. run with it. the time spent between 28psi and 40psi is very very small in a large frame turbo car on the track.

the larger the maf housing is, the more resolution you lose down low. this is not a win win situation. band aiding the problem with fooling the computer isn't the answer. we don't have a working solution, and using a glorified "map clamp" isn't the answer.

i didn't give the exact answer, this is what the whole ordeal is about. it is no great mystery how it works. between those cell's the ecm interpolates between the numbers.

then again. what do i know.

 

oh man...area...i totally trust in you as a tuner...but since matt is explaining everything to the point where i understand, i dont see how what you're saying works. Maybe im just not understanding, or maybe you didint provide enough info for me to fully understand (as you frequently do on purpose..lol), but i really want to understand what you're doing that is different than what matt is saying you are doing.

 

Area, you are just doing it again. Of course the issue is in the ECM and not the MAF, but unless you can get into the hard code of the ECM and add more cells, then what you are saying is useless. And don't hint at installing a 2.4 PCM, because that is not practical either. Our solution will be priced affordably and easy to do.