Sc vs. tc continued....,
06-20-2012, 08:00 PM
#201
No need to call names.
But you make a good point. A GMS1 Cobalt makes any where between 21-24psi of boost. My M62 powered E85 car made less then 18psi of boost. But my car will walk GMS1 cars. Why? Its has very little do with boost and more to do with timing, powerband and transaxle gearing. So you need to be a little careful when trying to make a point with someone because they can always find a way to twist it to support their opinion.
But back to talking about me.
How is it possible that my M62 setup will pull on GMS1 K04 setups? If you look in the official dyno thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...2012-a-272372/
Here is me in the stock blower LSJ category:
2. ebristol 303whp, 273wtq
Here are two GMS1 cobalts in the LNF category:
38. casionerd, 300.19whp, 359.16wtq
39. 1SLOLT1 300whp, 335wtq
*Setting dyno differences aside*
How does my car pull on cars that have the same HP but 62 to 86 more wtq? Its because of usable powerband and better transaxle gearing.
Now the next guy will come along and give an example that supports their point of view. Again, it really doesn't matter. There is always someone bigger, stronger, and faster. Its not really worth arguing about. Discussing it is healthy. Fighting over it is stupid.
But you make a good point. A GMS1 Cobalt makes any where between 21-24psi of boost. My M62 powered E85 car made less then 18psi of boost. But my car will walk GMS1 cars. Why? Its has very little do with boost and more to do with timing, powerband and transaxle gearing. So you need to be a little careful when trying to make a point with someone because they can always find a way to twist it to support their opinion.
But back to talking about me.
How is it possible that my M62 setup will pull on GMS1 K04 setups? If you look in the official dyno thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...2012-a-272372/
Here is me in the stock blower LSJ category:
2. ebristol 303whp, 273wtq
Here are two GMS1 cobalts in the LNF category:
38. casionerd, 300.19whp, 359.16wtq
39. 1SLOLT1 300whp, 335wtq
*Setting dyno differences aside*
How does my car pull on cars that have the same HP but 62 to 86 more wtq? Its because of usable powerband and better transaxle gearing.
Now the next guy will come along and give an example that supports their point of view. Again, it really doesn't matter. There is always someone bigger, stronger, and faster. Its not really worth arguing about. Discussing it is healthy. Fighting over it is stupid.
06-20-2012, 10:51 PM
#202
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All I need to say in response to your post is "Oh, yeah? Slap a TVS in the supercharged car, and let's see what happens." Then the turbo guy gets a different turbo. Then the supercharged guy gets cams/nitrous, and it goes on and on. There is always someone faster. Always. Why even argue about it?
But you totally missed the point he was trying to make. He was only rebutting the belief that LNF>LSJ just because it's turbo, not supercharged. Too many people on here are on the turbo bandwagon and believe that a turbo is better just because it makes more peak power.
Bottom line : do what you want. If you are not educated about something, ask someone who is.
But you totally missed the point he was trying to make. He was only rebutting the belief that LNF>LSJ just because it's turbo, not supercharged. Too many people on here are on the turbo bandwagon and believe that a turbo is better just because it makes more peak power.
Bottom line : do what you want. If you are not educated about something, ask someone who is.
06-21-2012, 05:38 AM
#203
No need to call names.
But you make a good point. A GMS1 Cobalt makes any where between 21-24psi of boost. My M62 powered E85 car made less then 18psi of boost. But my car will walk GMS1 cars. Why? Its has very little do with boost and more to do with timing, powerband and transaxle gearing. So you need to be a little careful when trying to make a point with someone because they can always find a way to twist it to support their opinion.
But back to talking about me.
How is it possible that my M62 setup will pull on GMS1 K04 setups? If you look in the official dyno thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...2012-a-272372/
Here is me in the stock blower LSJ category:
2. ebristol 303whp, 273wtq
Here are two GMS1 cobalts in the LNF category:
38. casionerd, 300.19whp, 359.16wtq
39. 1SLOLT1 300whp, 335wtq
*Setting dyno differences aside*
How does my car pull on cars that have the same HP but 62 to 86 more wtq? Its because of usable powerband and better transaxle gearing.
Now the next guy will come along and give an example that supports their point of view. Again, it really doesn't matter. There is always someone bigger, stronger, and faster. Its not really worth arguing about. Discussing it is healthy. Fighting over it is stupid.
But you make a good point. A GMS1 Cobalt makes any where between 21-24psi of boost. My M62 powered E85 car made less then 18psi of boost. But my car will walk GMS1 cars. Why? Its has very little do with boost and more to do with timing, powerband and transaxle gearing. So you need to be a little careful when trying to make a point with someone because they can always find a way to twist it to support their opinion.
But back to talking about me.
How is it possible that my M62 setup will pull on GMS1 K04 setups? If you look in the official dyno thread.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/dyno...2012-a-272372/
Here is me in the stock blower LSJ category:
2. ebristol 303whp, 273wtq
Here are two GMS1 cobalts in the LNF category:
38. casionerd, 300.19whp, 359.16wtq
39. 1SLOLT1 300whp, 335wtq
*Setting dyno differences aside*
How does my car pull on cars that have the same HP but 62 to 86 more wtq? Its because of usable powerband and better transaxle gearing.
Now the next guy will come along and give an example that supports their point of view. Again, it really doesn't matter. There is always someone bigger, stronger, and faster. Its not really worth arguing about. Discussing it is healthy. Fighting over it is stupid.
06-21-2012, 08:34 AM
#204
the reason i said LOL LNF, and not lol k04, is because when im down it wont matter if the lnf's have an upgraded turbo or not 
it boils down to who is willing to go the distance on their setup and who has more know how and most of all the bigger wallet
someone will always be faster thats the name of the game
it boils down to who is willing to go the distance on their setup and who has more know how and most of all the bigger wallet
someone will always be faster thats the name of the game
06-21-2012, 08:57 AM
#205
the reason i said LOL LNF, and not lol k04, is because when im down it wont matter if the lnf's have an upgraded turbo or not
it boils down to who is willing to go the distance on their setup and who has more know how and most of all the bigger wallet someone will always be faster thats the name of the game
it boils down to who is willing to go the distance on their setup and who has more know how and most of all the bigger wallet
someone will always be faster thats the name of the gameThat's why I have different goals than just trying to see how much peak horsepower I can put down on a dyno.
I'll be happy with a pinch over 300whp when I'm all said and done w/ my setup (S2 cams, 82# springs, exhaust ported head). Not everyone is looking for 400-500whp monsters.
For ***** & giggles, I may finally install the wires that came with my GMR kit, and set up a 50 shot
Last edited by Staged07SS; 06-21-2012 at 09:24 AM.
06-21-2012, 09:08 AM
#206
All I need to say in response to your post is "Oh, yeah? Slap a TVS in the supercharged car, and let's see what happens." Then the turbo guy gets a different turbo. Then the supercharged guy gets cams/nitrous, and it goes on and on. There is always someone faster. Always. Why even argue about it?
But you totally missed the point he was trying to make. He was only rebutting the belief that LNF>LSJ just because it's turbo, not supercharged. Too many people on here are on the turbo bandwagon and believe that a turbo is better just because it makes more peak power.
Bottom line : do what you want. If you are not educated about something, ask someone who is.
But you totally missed the point he was trying to make. He was only rebutting the belief that LNF>LSJ just because it's turbo, not supercharged. Too many people on here are on the turbo bandwagon and believe that a turbo is better just because it makes more peak power.
Bottom line : do what you want. If you are not educated about something, ask someone who is.
06-21-2012, 09:27 AM
#207
Exactly!
That's why I have different goals than just trying to see how much peak horsepower I can put down on a dyno.
I'll be happy with a pinch over 300whp when I'm all said and done w/ my setup (S2 cams, 82# springs, exhaust ported head). Not everyone is looking for 400-500whp monsters.
For ***** & giggles, I may finally install the wires that came with my GMR kit, and set up a 50 shot
That's why I have different goals than just trying to see how much peak horsepower I can put down on a dyno.
I'll be happy with a pinch over 300whp when I'm all said and done w/ my setup (S2 cams, 82# springs, exhaust ported head). Not everyone is looking for 400-500whp monsters.
For ***** & giggles, I may finally install the wires that came with my GMR kit, and set up a 50 shot
06-21-2012, 10:55 AM
#209
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With what you said. I didn't say you were getting out of line. But you bring up the ricer-ish old excuse of "oh yeah, well do this to the other car and let's see what happens." That is one of the most petty arguments (sorry, discussions) you can make. There will always be somebody faster. What-if scenarios are retarded.
06-21-2012, 11:08 AM
#211
The SS/SC is a great car;
When it came out, I wasn't in the position to pay in excess of $30k(cnd) for a horsepower increase (maybe it was only on paper) of 25 horsepower over my Grand Am (180->205)...
But the SS/SC is a great car.
06-21-2012, 12:54 PM
#213
With what you said. I didn't say you were getting out of line. But you bring up the ricer-ish old excuse of "oh yeah, well do this to the other car and let's see what happens." That is one of the most petty arguments (sorry, discussions) you can make. There will always be somebody faster. What-if scenarios are retarded.
06-21-2012, 02:02 PM
#214
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That's exactly what you said, maybe without the "oh, yeah" part, but it's the same thing! How do you not see that?
And, I'm cool. I don't get pissed off about stupid arguments like this. To each their own.
And, I'm cool. I don't get pissed off about stupid arguments like this. To each their own.
06-21-2012, 03:24 PM
#215
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i will vouch for this.... he does like sc's too.... he will also be the first to say that the diff between the 2 cars are simple evolution changes.... thanks to the sc for coming out thus making the tc even that much better.... us lsj owners are a proud bunch.. for a bunch of guys who took it in the a$$ finacially straight from gm to get a car overpriced and under powered.... sorry fellow lsj owners but truth is truth.... but the one thing they cant take from us is we do sound mean @ WOT....
06-21-2012, 04:05 PM
#216
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And the thing to is different people have different goals. Iirc, Staged is I guess for a lack of a better word "replicating" the time attack cobalt's engine. And zrated was trying to become the fastest blowered lsj (correct me if I'm wrong guys). And zrated is one of the fastest cars on the site, so it just goes to show it doesn't matter if you're supercharged, turbocharged, whatever it's how you build it. zrated is on the stock block. And ebristol made over 300whp on a M62 with a stock long block. So to me, you can make a cobalt fast both ways.
Last edited by 06_cobalt; 06-21-2012 at 04:31 PM.
06-21-2012, 04:43 PM
#219
just saw this post, and had to comment ...
I vote for changing the name of this thread;
Hey Mark speaks!!
How's it going man!!
I tried going around your work (as in east, then south) yesterday after work...
BAD IDEA...
an our later I was still sitting in traffic...
ugg.
I vote for changing the name of this thread;
Originally Posted by New Name
Blonde, Brunette, or Redhead
Hey Mark speaks!!
How's it going man!!
I tried going around your work (as in east, then south) yesterday after work...
BAD IDEA...
an our later I was still sitting in traffic...
ugg.
06-21-2012, 04:47 PM
#220
i will vouch for this.... he does like sc's too.... he will also be the first to say that the diff between the 2 cars are simple evolution changes.... thanks to the sc for coming out thus making the tc even that much better.... us lsj owners are a proud bunch.. for a bunch of guys who took it in the a$$ finacially straight from gm to get a car overpriced and under powered.... sorry fellow lsj owners but truth is truth.... but the one thing they cant take from us is we do sound mean @ WOT....
now unplug the ic pump off an lsj, slap it on a dyno and then you'll see what a "205bhp" lsj is going to put down.
still probably more than an SI but yea...
06-21-2012, 04:55 PM
#221
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underpowered from factory, yet under rated. most stock lsj's put between 230-240whp that makes for about 255-260bhp. GM just did that 205hp miss calculation for other purposes...
now unplug the ic pump off an lsj, slap it on a dyno and then you'll see what a "205bhp" lsj is going to put down.
still probably more than an SI but yea...
now unplug the ic pump off an lsj, slap it on a dyno and then you'll see what a "205bhp" lsj is going to put down.
still probably more than an SI but yea...
06-21-2012, 05:32 PM
#222
underpowered from factory, yet under rated. most stock lsj's put between 230-240whp that makes for about 255-260bhp. GM just did that 205hp miss calculation for other purposes...
now unplug the ic pump off an lsj, slap it on a dyno and then you'll see what a "205bhp" lsj is going to put down.
still probably more than an SI but yea...
now unplug the ic pump off an lsj, slap it on a dyno and then you'll see what a "205bhp" lsj is going to put down.
still probably more than an SI but yea...
Can you please cite your (legitimized) source for these WHP numbers?
I have understood that they actually pulled more akin to 205-215whp in stock trim, which would put them at about 230bhp...
If they really put out roughly 260bhp then the LNF would not have any discernible power difference than an LSJ... but they do.
The 205hp rating was so that it was under the hp limits for the sanctioned racing class they wanted to be in... but they got busted early on when a speed channel program put a bone stock SS/SC on the dyno and got just over 200whp... which is more than a legitimate 205bhp car should be...
(if you noticed my post earlier, I clearly said "on paper")
06-21-2012, 05:49 PM
#223
2009 Dyno thread (LINK)
68. WPG_SS/SC 213whp Verified WinDyn STOCK Graph
...
70. Mattman6 206whp, Verifed I
71. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
72. RooTBeer 183whp, 185wtq Veridied DynoDynamics I, HE
...
70. Mattman6 206whp, Verifed I
71. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
72. RooTBeer 183whp, 185wtq Veridied DynoDynamics I, HE
2010 Dyno thread (LINK)
75. yel-low 217whp 188wtq Verified DynoJet I, E, HE
76. WPG_SS/SC 213whp Verified WinDyn STOCK Graph
...
78. Mattman6 206whp, Verifed I
79. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
80. RooTBeer 183whp, 185wtq Veridied DynoDynamics I, HE
76. WPG_SS/SC 213whp Verified WinDyn STOCK Graph
...
78. Mattman6 206whp, Verifed I
79. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
80. RooTBeer 183whp, 185wtq Veridied DynoDynamics I, HE
42. Benfica7 240whp, 203wtq Verified Dynojet, I Graph 
43. D Rob 225whp, 195wtq Dynojet Dyno, STOCK Graph
44. WPG_SS/SC 213whp Verified WinDyn STOCK Graph
45. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
43. D Rob 225whp, 195wtq Dynojet Dyno, STOCK Graph
44. WPG_SS/SC 213whp Verified WinDyn STOCK Graph
45. CountrySS 198whp,178wtq Verified, I/E Graph
2012 Dyno Thread (LINK)
40. D Rob 225whp, 195wtq, Dynojet Dyno, STOCK, Graph
41. yellow dragon, 215.6whp, 187.4wtq, Verified WinDyn, AM, Graph,Chart1,Chart2
42. WPG_SS/SC 213whp, Verified WinDyn, STOCK, Graph
41. yellow dragon, 215.6whp, 187.4wtq, Verified WinDyn, AM, Graph,Chart1,Chart2
42. WPG_SS/SC 213whp, Verified WinDyn, STOCK, Graph
06-21-2012, 06:45 PM
#224
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ya im still alive and about to seriously have a great summer...
either way you can make both cars go.... it just depends how much money you wanna spend.... i do have 1 opinion about the 2 power adders.... i truely believe turbos more generic and kinda classless.... lets face it turbos are in everything.... kinda reminds me of the town bike.... everyone has rode it.... the supercharger is more of a domestic hp adder and has also been in gm cars for many years....
either way you can make both cars go.... it just depends how much money you wanna spend.... i do have 1 opinion about the 2 power adders.... i truely believe turbos more generic and kinda classless.... lets face it turbos are in everything.... kinda reminds me of the town bike.... everyone has rode it.... the supercharger is more of a domestic hp adder and has also been in gm cars for many years....