PpAzZ1101

You don't need to go half on HPT. Get the original tuner to unlock the PCM. If he won't, then we'll just have to come up with a tune ourselves and completely overwrite his. It's not like his tune is worth anything on there right now anyway.

Al has all 06 Cobalts unlocked... so does Dan. That's two guys here locally that have HPT and can work on your car. Believe me, as Al said before, if the four of us (Al, Dan, George, and I) can't tune it... then I don't think anyone can.

markiebredsrt4

ok i may be a noob to this site but im not a noob about cars and turbos

and where is auto turbo car faster?? probably only off the line right?

cuz you can easily brake boost a manual car and build as much boost as you want from a roll

so just cuz my post count is low and my join date recent doesn't mean i am a noob

PpAzZ1101

His car is NOT going to be a full drag car. That's why it's great for this application. It maintains great drivability on the street, but still allows him to run consistent times at the track.

The auto tranny in this car is extremely strong. It's not going to fall apart under the power he's putting through it.... so it really doesn't matter which is stronger.

How about this... you tell us why he should go with a manual transmission?

LewiSS

In a turbocharged car, the power occurs during boost. Maximum boost occurs during WOT (that's Wide Open Throttle). If you close the throttle, the boost goes away and you have to re-build boost by getting back in the throttle. This happens each time you shift a manual. With an auto, you don't let up on the throttle to shift. That means boost rises when you first hit the throttle, and stays there through the shifts, so HP is maximumized through the entire run. All other things being equal, a turbocharged auto will get through the quarter (and drive better on the street) than a manual.

Don't take my word for it. Read the following road test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...-red-line.html

Car & Driver has tested the Sky turbo with both transmissions, and have the proof. But this isn't a new concept - it's been true since the beginning of turbocharging. Here's a quote from the article:

"The good news is that, despite the turn-off of an automatic-equipped sports car, the performance numbers of this Sky Red Line should be seriously eyeballed because in our hands it outaccelerates a mechanically identical Pontiac Solstice GXP equipped with a stick shift...With an automatic, the Sky Red Line hustles its way to 60 mph in 5.2 seconds, a time that betters the manual Solstice GXP’s 5.6 seconds...

Aside from being quicker, the automatic option makes accelerative tasks easy. Getting the manual version quickly to 60 requires a torturous high-rpm clutch drop followed by careful management of wheelspin and two very fast shifts. The automatic requires only brake torquing (left foot on the brake pedal, right foot on the throttle pedal) and the will to keep the accelerator pegged...

In a manual-shifting car, depressing the clutch between gears unloads the engine. Keeping a turbo engine loaded is advantageous because it keeps the turbo spinning, which in turn allows for faster power delivery."

That's not me talking, that's the experts at Car and Driver.

Witt

I'm agreeing with this. I can tune it, Dan can tune it, redline dan can tune it. All we need is the car for a day or two. I would have to rewrite the tune with a stock one with an adjusted injector flow rate table and work on it from there.

PpAzZ1101

The auto also doesn't lose boost between shifts. And yes, off the line his car will be faster. Roll racing = rice.


Edit: LewisSS beat me to the point about boost between shifts.

Witt

Yeah guy, thats just a great idea. Lets get rid of the ~20k dollar car, sell off all the aftermarket items he bought and paid labor for to install them, just to buy another 20k dollar car, buy and install the same items yet again and take a hit on the trade.

I'm sure that will solve the lean air fuel ratio for sure.

Have you even read the thread to see what his problems with the car are, or do you just feel like butting in with a worthless opinion that has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

celicacobalt

thats true, then maybe what we can do is have ed lower the boost to 8 psi and install the new plugs and possibly move the 02 sensor. ill give brian 1 more chance to tune it, if he cant do it then ill make sure he keeps the tune unlocked so we can go in and change what we need to. ill just need al and dan and you there to tune on eds dyno i guess. once we get this done then we will have a turbo 2.4 tune for whoever could use it. hopefully you will be able to if you go thru with the turbo project.

markiebredsrt4

lol well for one having a manual to me would be more fun

and have you ever heard of brake boosting

and how is roll racing=rice....spinning aint winning...

Witt

Let me know what the outcome is either way.

WSFrazier

learn2drive kthx

celicacobalt

definately, this has been stressful as hell. the cel has flashed a few times over the last couple days, not sure what that means and now my coolant temps have been acting weird. i didnt hear my fan come on when the temps went way up to 216 degrees. But im hoping that the nest time the tuner goes to tune it that you can be there to help him thru it and also to plug your hp tuners in to make sure its unlocked so it can be tweaked if need be. but for now all i can do is keep you updated on everything i know.

LewiSS

Vector claims to have provided Garrett with the tune for the kit. They say that if you contact them, they can "fine tune" the set-up. However, that appears to be a lot of work compared to using HPTune.

I asked Vector if they use HPTune and they said no, they use their own software.

I agree with you - go with HPTune and local expertise and start from scratch. I'll be using the SMT-6, and am anxious to see both the Garrett and my Alpine kits tuned and running to compare solutions (not necessarity performance, but to see the resulting fuel curves). I think both approaches are perfectly valid.

celicacobalt

cool man, just be careful with that smt-6, the more i hear about it the more dangerous it seems to be.

LewiSS

I agree with the boost. 8 would be easier to tune to, and a better starting point. What's the problem with the O2 sensor?

markiebredsrt4

says the guy that when he floors it from a stop he has no wheelspin


having more then 300wtrq in a fwd car on street tires is gonna spin no matter the driver and you will lose


last i checked the point of race is to see who gets from point a to point b quickest

so if i am gonna run a rwd car the ricer thing to do would say"lets go from a stop so you can totally kill me and i may even break an axle due to wheelhop"

or you can say "how about a 40" and show him whats up


learn2havealotofhpthentalktome kthnx

celicacobalt

well my installer Ed did a turbo cougar a little bit ago and he said that sometimes with the 02 sensor being so close to the downpipe it gets less than desirable readings. he moved the 02 sensor on the cougar and supposedly cleared up a heap of issues with just that. he says mine is dangerously close to the turbo.

WSFrazier

IIRC, the shop owner thinks the o2 sensor might be too close to the Turbo. All the heat may be giving incorrect readings.

LewiSS

Thanks - like all tuning solutions, it depends on someone good with the software, and a clean installation (soldering the connections rather than using splices, heat-shrink tubing rather than tape, etc.). What injectors are you running? I think it's up in this thread somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look

celicacobalt

well ,my auto has no wheel hop at all, another advantage to a stick...


42 pounders but the tuner said that is some math he did on the flow rate the injectors are closer to 50 pounders or something

markiebredsrt4

wheel hop has nothing to do with trannies it has to do with tires and suspension its caused by a lack of traction and the spinning causes the tires to hop

celicacobalt

well as far as i know the auto tranny absorbes some of that shock and does battle wheelhop though not on purpose.

LewiSS

Thanks (and to you, Celicacobalt) for this tip. I'll mention it to John at Alpine. If they got the new exhaust flange in yesterday, they should be ready to install my turbo tomorrow. I'm hoping for a call today letting me know. We're THIS close! I may be running boosted this weekend, maybe early next week. I'd prefer they install Friday and tune Saturday so I can be there.

This should be an interesting comparison. I believe we're going with 5 psi and no intercooler at first, then adding an air-to-water intercooler and upping the boost to the 7-8 range later.

celicacobalt

no problem, im hoping my experience with this will be able to help anyone doing this type of project. but why not just start off intercooled? is this because alpine wants to do different stages like they do with the tiburon?

markiebredsrt4

very true ima leave so this can get back on topic