YYZ springs
These springs are not for the timid. These springs are designed to run with koni's in the rear at least. John also sells re-vavled front koni's for the front but it's pricy, $500 on top of the cost of the front shocks. It looks like you can run FE5 fronts but you need to run koni's in the rear.
so the fronts springs are being designed with the front fe5 damping in mind? Basically in an underdamped circumstance what sort of consequences would you have going on in the rear if I were to keep the fe5's there. IIRC underdamped setups have more of a bouncy "unconnected" feel over larger bumps yet a smoother ride over smaller ones correct?
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Joined: 07-10-06
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From: Langhorne pa
Yeah what they said.
It seems to me these springs are mostly for legit track use he gathered input from a lot of knowledgeable people, people that are pushing the pedders set ups to full compression under load. Sounds like they are a track spring that can be used for street but they require the proper set up to keep the car balanced. So if you go for these and cheap out on the rear koni's we don't wanna hear about it lol
Don't mind me, booze can make me sound like I know what I'm talking about. I could be way off....
It seems to me these springs are mostly for legit track use he gathered input from a lot of knowledgeable people, people that are pushing the pedders set ups to full compression under load. Sounds like they are a track spring that can be used for street but they require the proper set up to keep the car balanced. So if you go for these and cheap out on the rear koni's we don't wanna hear about it lol
Don't mind me, booze can make me sound like I know what I'm talking about. I could be way off....
Yeah what they said.
It seems to me these springs are mostly for legit track use he gathered input from a lot of knowledgeable people, people that are pushing the pedders set ups to full compression under load. Sounds like they are a track spring that can be used for street but they require the proper set up to keep the car balanced. So if you go for these and cheap out on the rear koni's we don't wanna hear about it lol
Don't mind me, booze can make me sound like I know what I'm talking about. I could be way off....
It seems to me these springs are mostly for legit track use he gathered input from a lot of knowledgeable people, people that are pushing the pedders set ups to full compression under load. Sounds like they are a track spring that can be used for street but they require the proper set up to keep the car balanced. So if you go for these and cheap out on the rear koni's we don't wanna hear about it lol
Don't mind me, booze can make me sound like I know what I'm talking about. I could be way off....
kinda what I figured..
so the fronts springs are being designed with the front fe5 damping in mind? Basically in an underdamped circumstance what sort of consequences would you have going on in the rear if I were to keep the fe5's there. IIRC underdamped setups have more of a bouncy "unconnected" feel over larger bumps yet a smoother ride over smaller ones correct?
so the fronts springs are being designed with the front fe5 damping in mind? Basically in an underdamped circumstance what sort of consequences would you have going on in the rear if I were to keep the fe5's there. IIRC underdamped setups have more of a bouncy "unconnected" feel over larger bumps yet a smoother ride over smaller ones correct?
Your last statement was correct, underdamped setups are more "bouncy" but can also lead to less stable less predictable handling characteristics. I'm not exactly sure how the front being underdamped and the rear being critically damped would make the car feel though.
This is what I believe to be correct: the YYZ's are being made as a track spring as John has said therefore have higher rates to control body roll but also higher rates in the rear to increase oversteer. Because of the higher rear rates, higher damping rates in the rear will be necessary. However because the front spring rate isn't raised as high as the rear is, a higher damping rate strut isn't NEEDED but the spring will be underdamped, if only slightly.
Your last statement was correct, underdamped setups are more "bouncy" but can also lead to less stable less predictable handling characteristics. I'm not exactly sure how the front being underdamped and the rear being critically damped would make the car feel though.
Your last statement was correct, underdamped setups are more "bouncy" but can also lead to less stable less predictable handling characteristics. I'm not exactly sure how the front being underdamped and the rear being critically damped would make the car feel though.
Now from what I have heard, Pedders springs are the same, if not softer, spring rate as our stock springs and that's why they ride like stock. I'm curious as to how much stiffer Powell is making his rears, and if he is changing the front spring rate as well.
Some good posts here. Let me share some information:
so today, I drove Loki's car (TC, OZ wheels, Star specs, cabs, hardcore rear bar) for a decent drive 30 miles or so. And of course, I drove my car as well every day now. And I asked Kween to drive Loki's car, and then put her in mine... itsa back to back ride off.
There is this old song, Sinatra used to sing it
"night and day, under the hide of me
There's an oh, such a hungry yearnin' burnin' inside of me
And its torment won't be through
Till you let me spend my life makin' love to you
Day and night, night and day "
Point is , thats the difference, Pedders with age,and YYZ. Night and Day.
And that rattling/clunking redssna is talking of? Loki has it so bad its embarrasing, apart from the fact the front tires are hitting the upper fender rail.
So not even near a track yet, the YYZ ride so much better.
NOW> Do you need Koni's? If you are like me yes, but the ride balance is sooo much better ( front to rear spring rate ratio) that the shocks dont have to damp an oversoft rear spring. So dont be afraid to run new FE5 rear shocks and front struts with these YYZ springs. The rates are good, and yes when we are shipping these I will publish some data, data that NO other spring supplier will publish. Because they would have to show that their springs are softer, and dont have the solid load to get the handling and ride balance we all want. Well all except the bottom feeders lol
Oh and Kween, no lie/no prompting, said the car felt "sharper, turned better" . Driving on the street in traffic.
so...
Kween said:
ok.. so,, i thought i'd throw in my .02 here.. firstly, i'm not a big fan on the super low scrap the crap outta ur inner fender liners.. (Kyle.. yes.. there was 400 lbs of crap in there.. ) had a chance to do the AB test today with the new springs.. Sad to say that Pedders have not been able to live a longer life for some people. uhmmm.. maybe a lot of people.. Seen a lot of issues with these Pedders , that were fantastic when they came out..but.. now.. not so much.. Drove Loki's car.. nothing new.. drove it lots of times to the fabricator.. bumpy, rougher ride.. then drove the RL with the new YYZ springs.. noticeably smoother ride, turn in on corners, much more precise.. street driving.. feels super nice.. that's all i got.. "
Mofofernando said" From what I've seen Pedders sit level on the hhr but raked on the balt and ion that's why I'm curious since your car looks level with them on vs the rake Pedders typically give. "
I said"thats true. but the spring rates are sooo much different on these YYZ I think you will find it trims level on an HHR. I would bet on it. "
The solid load ( Narj can explain that to you all) on the rear spring is ginormous compared to any lowering spring. And understand that these springs are not going to give you a big drop.
And Aikidoshadow said:
"If Pedders were such a pita ( fail rates, Customer Service) then why did you recommend them after all that BS you had to put up with Qwik, or was it just a "only player in the ball game" situation?
You put yourself out to help me get mine, and it makes me a loyal customer for things like that. Just sore at pedders for poor QA."
And I replied:
"They were the only game in town- all the other springs are so bad I cant beleive it.... what depresses me more, is the ride on these Hyperco made springs, even though the solid load at the rear is like 3 times what an eibach is, they ride fantabulous. I am so happy. No bounce at the front ( pedders) no bounce at the rear ( cm, eibach, pedders without konis,etc) it s just awesome. And I dont want to oversell it, coz I am not thrilled with the trim ht like I said, but then I got used to the Pedders which had collapsed.
And I do try and help folks get parts even if I dont make them, coz I am just like that. I dont do it for the good of the community I do it as a fellow enthusaist mad about decent cars...
so moving right along:
black TC is stock. Blue redline has YYZ
silver redline has Canuck/SSC
ya dont like it, fck it. The ride and handling trumps all. U want moah loah get airbags
Around 310 a set + shipping.... for the next four weeks...
so today, I drove Loki's car (TC, OZ wheels, Star specs, cabs, hardcore rear bar) for a decent drive 30 miles or so. And of course, I drove my car as well every day now. And I asked Kween to drive Loki's car, and then put her in mine... itsa back to back ride off.
There is this old song, Sinatra used to sing it
"night and day, under the hide of me
There's an oh, such a hungry yearnin' burnin' inside of me
And its torment won't be through
Till you let me spend my life makin' love to you
Day and night, night and day "
Point is , thats the difference, Pedders with age,and YYZ. Night and Day.
And that rattling/clunking redssna is talking of? Loki has it so bad its embarrasing, apart from the fact the front tires are hitting the upper fender rail.
So not even near a track yet, the YYZ ride so much better.
NOW> Do you need Koni's? If you are like me yes, but the ride balance is sooo much better ( front to rear spring rate ratio) that the shocks dont have to damp an oversoft rear spring. So dont be afraid to run new FE5 rear shocks and front struts with these YYZ springs. The rates are good, and yes when we are shipping these I will publish some data, data that NO other spring supplier will publish. Because they would have to show that their springs are softer, and dont have the solid load to get the handling and ride balance we all want. Well all except the bottom feeders lol
Oh and Kween, no lie/no prompting, said the car felt "sharper, turned better" . Driving on the street in traffic.
so...
Kween said:
ok.. so,, i thought i'd throw in my .02 here.. firstly, i'm not a big fan on the super low scrap the crap outta ur inner fender liners.. (Kyle.. yes.. there was 400 lbs of crap in there.. ) had a chance to do the AB test today with the new springs.. Sad to say that Pedders have not been able to live a longer life for some people. uhmmm.. maybe a lot of people.. Seen a lot of issues with these Pedders , that were fantastic when they came out..but.. now.. not so much.. Drove Loki's car.. nothing new.. drove it lots of times to the fabricator.. bumpy, rougher ride.. then drove the RL with the new YYZ springs.. noticeably smoother ride, turn in on corners, much more precise.. street driving.. feels super nice.. that's all i got.. "
Mofofernando said" From what I've seen Pedders sit level on the hhr but raked on the balt and ion that's why I'm curious since your car looks level with them on vs the rake Pedders typically give. "
I said"thats true. but the spring rates are sooo much different on these YYZ I think you will find it trims level on an HHR. I would bet on it. "
The solid load ( Narj can explain that to you all) on the rear spring is ginormous compared to any lowering spring. And understand that these springs are not going to give you a big drop.
And Aikidoshadow said:
"If Pedders were such a pita ( fail rates, Customer Service) then why did you recommend them after all that BS you had to put up with Qwik, or was it just a "only player in the ball game" situation?
You put yourself out to help me get mine, and it makes me a loyal customer for things like that. Just sore at pedders for poor QA."
And I replied:
"They were the only game in town- all the other springs are so bad I cant beleive it.... what depresses me more, is the ride on these Hyperco made springs, even though the solid load at the rear is like 3 times what an eibach is, they ride fantabulous. I am so happy. No bounce at the front ( pedders) no bounce at the rear ( cm, eibach, pedders without konis,etc) it s just awesome. And I dont want to oversell it, coz I am not thrilled with the trim ht like I said, but then I got used to the Pedders which had collapsed.
And I do try and help folks get parts even if I dont make them, coz I am just like that. I dont do it for the good of the community I do it as a fellow enthusaist mad about decent cars...
so moving right along:
black TC is stock. Blue redline has YYZ
silver redline has Canuck/SSC
ya dont like it, fck it. The ride and handling trumps all. U want moah loah get airbags
Around 310 a set + shipping.... for the next four weeks...
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; Jul 31, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
When a spring/damper system is critically damped (the damping ratio is 1), the system will return to its steady 0 position the quickest after any given input. An underdamped system will oscillate more and an overdamped system won't oscillate but will take longer to get back to steady 0. Its better to be slightly underdamped than slightly overdamped. With a damping ratio of .5 (underdamped) you will still reach steady 0 before the system with a damping ratio of 1.5 (overdamped).
Niceeee! Thanks John!
Last edited by noorj; Jul 31, 2012 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
trying to decide what i should do. because i have brand new pedders i never installed. and i need to get rid of my sportlines because the ride is so horrible.
i dont track my car or auto cross. simply daily drive.
every morning on my way to work i go down one road and the road is so heavily work and cracked and bumpy i hate riding on it. i dont care about drop. and pedders isnt that much of a difference between sportlines on my 2.2 (.5 front higher .9 higher in rear)
my fe5 suspension only has about 25,000 miles on them and i wasnt sure if id want to get the rear koni shocks. my friend may buy my pedders so this may be tempting.
but overall daily driving is better than pedders? eg uneven roads shitty pavement potholes and all the crap stuff about roads that get worn out over time
i dont track my car or auto cross. simply daily drive.
every morning on my way to work i go down one road and the road is so heavily work and cracked and bumpy i hate riding on it. i dont care about drop. and pedders isnt that much of a difference between sportlines on my 2.2 (.5 front higher .9 higher in rear)
my fe5 suspension only has about 25,000 miles on them and i wasnt sure if id want to get the rear koni shocks. my friend may buy my pedders so this may be tempting.
but overall daily driving is better than pedders? eg uneven roads shitty pavement potholes and all the crap stuff about roads that get worn out over time
Last edited by Cobalt08LS; Jul 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM.
