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Injector basics for LSJ

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Injector basics for LSJ

Old 08-26-2015, 11:46 AM
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Did you just copy the tables or did you adjust what he said in the first post?
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
On paper you should be able to swap injectors, and as long as your injector data is correct, you should not have to change any trims. In reality nothing is perfect and at max you should not see more than a 2-3% change in fueling if nothing else was changed but injectors.


If you are interested in the 100% correct and verified injector data for the LSJ send me a PM and I will provid it.
I was unaware that I would have to enter 50% of the values. I thought if there was any scaling it would have been done already.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by blueLNFftw View Post
Did you just copy the tables or did you adjust what he said in the first post?
I cut the injector offsets in half and tried again. My stft's were much closer to 0 within 3% but when I go into PE my afr is way rich. Im commanding .91 (combined with meth for .80) and now (with out meth) getting .82. Now I have to say again that my tune was spot on before I switched injectors, I had no issues at all and Ive been running the same tune for months.
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:15 PM
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First, thank you for this thread and info, its great info.

I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?

And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:11 PM
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Yes they will fit your head. I use the siemans 60s, they can work. I got em for free tho
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowbalt2000 View Post
Yes they will fit your head. I use the siemans 60s, they can work. I got em for free tho
Well if you want to share some of that free 60 love I'll run the 60's as well. Let me PM you my shipping address ...

But if I'm buying anyway the price difference isn't enough to me to justify any headaches.

I assume that the e67 does not have the 50% offset issue as the p12 does?
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:17 PM
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Lol, i dont have any to give away. If you get the boshe injectors, any good tuner will be able to dial them in fine given the injector data is good.
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:18 PM
  #108  
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And im not sure if anyone else actually practices the whole 50% thing besides OP.
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowbalt2000 View Post
And im not sure if anyone else actually practices the whole 50% thing besides OP.
This is what I was referring to ...

Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
What I have discovered and verified is the LSJ computer(P12) uses exactly 50% of the offset values. I cannot figure out why, and I hope someone can figure it out. I have verified these offset values are correct, and I will show you how. Try it. Bet you it works.
I can see how the ECM using only half of what the user entered would lead to issues tuning. I'm wondering if that same issue exists with the e67?
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Old 10-04-2015, 03:45 PM
  #110  
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i dont think it does...
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Old 10-04-2015, 03:59 PM
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The original link to Bosh's data page in the OP's post appears to be broken. Here is the info I could find on their site right now:

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/de/de...s_1_328809.php
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es_enpdf~2.pdf
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...5993867pdf.pdf

They even have 3d models available if you're into CAD as I am.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media...es/EV14zip.zip

They also have a EV-14L (long) which shouldn't require the spacers if I am correct. The EV-14 series appears to have an EV6 connector which would require a plug adapter (I believe) for the LSJ but not for the LE5.

Someone correct any of this if I am mistaken.
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Old 10-04-2015, 04:25 PM
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Also, looking at the data sheet, they don't appear to offer the size that the OP says he got. They have (rated at 3 bar):

116g/hr = 161cc/min = 15lbs/hr
150 = 208 = 20
237 = 329 = 31
387 = 538 = 51
429 = 596 = 57
503 = 699 = 67
670 = 931 = 89
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Old 10-04-2015, 04:36 PM
  #113  
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57 is close enough since our fuel pressure is higher than that
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Old 10-05-2015, 05:11 AM
  #114  
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:26 PM
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I ordered 5 of the 60# injectors from Injector Connection today. (1 spare.) I spoke to a guy named John who was very helpful and easy to work with. He remembered Randy (the OP of this thread) and the stuff Randy had done to get the data for the P12 but agreed that Randy seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet. He says he has tried calling him many times and never gets an answer. Randy has not been active on this site in 9 months. Coincidentally, Randy's profile claims that he operates out of Pensacola, which is about 5 miles from me, and lives in Crestview, which is less than an hour from me. If I knew that he had a shop or something I would swing by and see what's up. There are not many performance shops in Pensacola. Most pop up and are gone seemingly overnight. John also said that Randy gave Al McClure from ARM Performance the data. He gave me Al's cell number, which I called, but only got voicemail. John himself had it at one time but lost it.

Since I am running an E67 ECM I think I have it easier than you P12 guys. Within 5 minutes of purchasing John had sent me an email with the injector data in E67 format. I will post it if anyone cares for it. So I think I have what I need. I was trying to help you P12 guys out though.

The actual injectors that I bought and are listed in the OP are unique EV14's made for an OEM. That is why their part number is not listed in the Bosch EV14 literature. I believe he said that they are Audi injectors. I do not believe that the stock application uses the little tip extenders that John sent Randy and I.

Last edited by patooyee; 10-05-2015 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:42 PM
  #116  
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Sweet, alan is on this forum, i cant get ahold of him if you need me to. Let us know how the injectors are.
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:45 AM
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Alan never returned my call or PM on FB. So I guess if anyone wants P12 data for these injectors you might try him. My offer stands to host it and post the link.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:36 AM
  #118  
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Alan where are youuuuuu?
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:05 PM
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I run these 60lb Bosch motorsport injectors in my LSJ (original from a Porsche GT3 if I'm correct...) and have the data somewhere. Need to dig, as it is some time ago that I played with my engine.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
First, thank you for this thread and info, its great info.

I'm turbo charging an LE5 and was about to get Siemens 60# injectors when I read this thread. I have no reference for LSJ injectors. Would the Bosh injectors be a good candidate to fit my head?

And why are we resorting to one dude PMing these injector specs to people one by one? That seems dumb. If someone wants to email them to me I will host them and post a link so that anyone who wants them can download them at any time ...
The injector data supplied by the op is garbage anyway. He's modified it from the original and as far as I can tell it might not be for theses injectors but based of similar Bosch ones. Also fuel injector connection will not supply any data on these regardless of how many times you contact them, which is bs if you ask me. They don't even know the proper flow rate for these injectors. When I got them they had a sticker with 650cc written on them which is wrong.
If anyone can get clean data on these I would really appreciate it. If I still had my secondary vehicle I would send mine off to get tested so I would have the proper data and share it. If anyone has these injectors lying around I would chip in to pay for the testing.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RedLined View Post
The injector data supplied by the op is garbage anyway. He's modified it from the original and as far as I can tell it might not be for theses injectors but based of similar Bosch ones. Also fuel injector connection will not supply any data on these regardless of how many times you contact them, which is bs if you ask me. They don't even know the proper flow rate for these injectors. When I got them they had a sticker with 650cc written on them which is wrong.
If anyone can get clean data on these I would really appreciate it. If I still had my secondary vehicle I would send mine off to get tested so I would have the proper data and share it. If anyone has these injectors lying around I would chip in to pay for the testing.
I'm sorry, I thought I had updated this thread. I bought the injectors from Injector Connection, they were a pleasure to deal with and sent me the data right away. Here it is:

http://www.patooyee.com/squirt/FIC65...V14LSXHPT.xlsx

Do you have reason to believe that this data is incorrect?

Edit: It's been a while since I read this thread. Can this data not be translated to the P12?

Last edited by patooyee; 01-05-2016 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:03 PM
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There is so much misinformation about injectors for these cars its ******* ludicrous.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowbalt2000 View Post
There is so much misinformation about injectors for these cars its ******* ludicrous.
Such as ... ?
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Old 01-05-2016, 03:43 PM
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Nobody agrees on anything really. Theres tons out there on the hptuners forum that is totally wrong, using the map vs volts table to try and scale past the 60lb/hr limit, but ARM proved it to be impossible. Next injectors i get are going to be injector dynamics when i can afford them.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:06 PM
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The data I got is from the OP and it also included data on various injectors that is nearly identical to that released by Greg Banish. The only differences were that the values for injectors with IFR higher than the 63.5 limit had their offset values halved. As the op believes our pcms only use half the values.

Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
I'm sorry, I thought I had updated this thread. I bought the injectors from Injector Connection, they were a pleasure to deal with and sent me the data right away. Here it is:

http://www.patooyee.com/squirt/FIC65...V14LSXHPT.xlsx

Do you have reason to believe that this data is incorrect?

Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
First, I did not receive offset data for an LSJ with these injectors. I started with the Bosch spec sheet for these and went from there. If you buy these injectors, guess who made the offset tables that will be emailed to you from FIC? Me. I made them with hundreds of hours of trial and error, for free.

The data you received from FIC has only the adders and minimum pulse width tables in common with the OP's. The offsets are slightly different but I have no reason to believe it is accurate unless some one is using it properly and without issues. (By properly I mean on a tune where the bad data isn't being made up for in the MAF or VE)
I believe that FIC is using the info they have for their Bosch 650cc injectors instead of actually flow testing these injectors. Which would explain why all the data I've seen for them is labeled 650CC and has a flow rate of 72.02 lb/hr @58psi instead of the 69 lb/hr @ 58 psi of a 627CC injector.
Ill try the data you posted on a new tune for my car in various ways and post my findings here in a few days. Ive done extensive testing on multiple ways of running these injectors with the OP's data and haven't found a consistent and reliable method to use the data without skewing my MAF. The car will run whats commanded while in pe, but under low load and at idle the performance is sub par (at least compared to the stage kit injectors they replaced) and the adjustments I have had to make to my maf to get them to work, just so I can drive the car reliably, is ridiculous.
Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
It's been a while since I read this thread. Can this data not be translated to the P12?
You will have to do some interpolating, but yes it can.
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