Opinions
Precisely, the difference between police entrapment and self-entrapment (simply f-ing up when the cops are watching) is why Chris Hansen has a job 
Of course, most of those idiots make the proposition first, but the concept holds.
If some dude revs at you, and you race him, then an outside cop sees the whole thing and pulls you over, can you blame the other guy? Were you a victim of entrapment then? Certainly not. Just because it's a cop revving at you, doesn't mean the rules change. On the flip side, if some random dude held a gun to your head and told you to race his buddy, then you're not at fault, you were a victim of entrapment... just the same as if a cop did it (although it's called coercion if a civilian does it).

Of course, most of those idiots make the proposition first, but the concept holds.
If some dude revs at you, and you race him, then an outside cop sees the whole thing and pulls you over, can you blame the other guy? Were you a victim of entrapment then? Certainly not. Just because it's a cop revving at you, doesn't mean the rules change. On the flip side, if some random dude held a gun to your head and told you to race his buddy, then you're not at fault, you were a victim of entrapment... just the same as if a cop did it (although it's called coercion if a civilian does it).
so then your saying its not illegal to speed up an bounce off the rev limiter till you get to the posted speed limit?...and if it is illegal since when does being a police officer make them outside the law?
If a police officer repeatedly revs on you light after light and you take the bait after a few times then yes that would be entrapment. My neighbor is a sheriff in Jax and told me that they have lost 3 cases already due to this type behavior from officers.
Here in Jacksonville we have everything from Tahoe's to STI's as undercover cop cars so they are going to try and get you what ever way they can.
See the bold areas below for what constitutes entrapment by an officer.
Here in Jacksonville we have everything from Tahoe's to STI's as undercover cop cars so they are going to try and get you what ever way they can.
See the bold areas below for what constitutes entrapment by an officer.
Entrapment
(Reprinted with the permission of the Alameda County District Attorneys Office.)
I ate the apple because the serpent beguiled me.
Eve.
Entrapment is a complete defense to a crime. This means a defendant is entitled to an acquittal if he committed the crime under circumstances constituting police entrapment.1 It does not matter that the evidence against the defendant was overwhelming, or that his guilt was undisputed.2 If he was entrapped, he goes free.
Although the penalty is severe, the courts believe it is justified by the need to discourage officers from engaging in overzealous tactics.3 In the words of Justice Frankfurter, The courts refuse to convict an entrapped defendant, not because his conduct falls outside the proscription of the statute, but because, even if his guilt be admitted, the methods employed on behalf of the Government to bring about conviction cannot be countenanced. Human nature is weak enough and sufficiently best by temptations without government adding to them and generating crime.4
In addition, entrapment is viewed as a type of lawless law enforcement, a substitute for skillful and scientific investigation, and a tactic which is sometimes rationalized under the theory that the end, when dealing with known criminals or the criminal classes, justifies the employment of illegal means.5
In this article we will look at how the courts determine if a defendant was entrapped, and what types of police conduct will and will not be deemed entrapment. We will also discuss the related defense know as outrageous police conduct.
WHAT IS ENTRAPMENT?
Entrapment occurs if the conduct of the investigating officers or their agents in dealing with the defendant would likely have induced a normally law-abiding person to commit the crime with which the defendant was charged.6
Because the existence of entrapment depends solely on the conduct of the investigating officers and their agents, the courts will not take into account the defendants conduct, character, intent, or criminal history.7 To give meaning to the officers conduct, however, the courts may consider various surrounding circumstances, such as transactions preceding the offense, the suspects response to the inducement of the officer, the gravity of the crime, and the difficulty of detecting instances of its commission.8
Keep in mind that this hypothetical law abiding person is not a pillar of the community who would never break the law. Although he is normally law-abiding, he will commit a crime - even a felony - if sufficiently motivated.
Accordingly, the main issue in entrapment cases is whether officers provided such motivation. As the California Supreme Court explained, What we do care about [in determining whether entrapment occurred] is how much and what manner of persuasion, pressure, and cajoling are brought to bear by law enforcement officials to induce persons to commit crimes.9
Prohibited police actions:
The following actions by officers or their agents constitute entrapment:
PRESSURE: Entrapment occurs if the defendant committed the crime as the result of an officers threats or other pressure such as badgering, coaxing, cajoling, or importuning.10 For example, in People v. Barraza11 the California Supreme Court ruled the defendant was entitled to a jury instruction on entrapment because there was evidence that the defendant, a recovering heroin addict with a steady job, sold heroin to an undercover police agent only because, (1) the agent telephoned him repeatedly at work; (2) he was afraid he would lose his job if the agent kept calling, so he agreed to meet with her; and (3) during the meeting, which lasted more than an hour, the agent importuned him relentlessly until his resistance was worn down and overcome.
CREATING AN UNUSUAL MOTIVE: Entrapment also occurs if the conduct of the officers would have generated in the mind of a normally law-abiding person an unusual and compelling motive to commit the crime.12 For example, entrapment may result if an officer persuaded the defendant to commit the crime as an act of friendship or sympathy instead of a desire for personal gain or some other common criminal motive.13
Note, however, that entrapment will not result merely because an undercover officer befriended the defendant. For example, in People v. Lee14 the defendant contended she was entrapped because a police agent befriended her, and that her decision to sell drugs to the agent was motivated by feelings of friendship. Although it was true that the agent and defendant were acquainted, the court observed they were hardly close friends. Said the court, Friendship ranges a spectrum of depth and emotions. People have best friends, dear friends, close friends, fair-weather friends [Defendant] simply failed to establish the type of friendship needing such protection.
MAKING THE CRIME UNUSUALLY ATTRACTIVE:
Entrapment may result if officers engaged in conduct that would have made the commission of the crime unusually attractive to a normally law-abiding person.15 For example, it might be entrapment if officers asserted the crime would not be detected or that it was not illegal, or if the defendant was offered an excessive amount of money or other exorbitant consideration for committing the crime.16
On the other hand, merely taking steps to facilitate the commission of the crime will generally not constitute entrapment. For example, in People v. Holloway17 the court ruled that an undercover officers sale of drugs to the defendant at less than resale value did not constitute entrapment because the officer sold the drugs only after trying to negotiate a higher price, which [the defendant] insisted he could not meet. And, in what appears to be a close case, the court upheld a jurys determination that the defendant in a warehouse burglary case was not entrapped as the result of an undercover officers assurances that he could get the defendant into the warehouse and, Itll just be a matter of walking in, loadin up and walkin out. No break in, no alarms or nothin.18
Permissible police actions:
The following actions by officers or their agents will not constitute entrapment:
CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT A CRIME:
Entrapment does not result merely because officers created a situation which made it possible for the defendant to commit the crime.19 This is because it is presumed that a normally law-abiding person would resist the temptation to commit a crime if officers did nothing more than give him an opportunity to do so.
Consequently, it is not entrapment to employ undercover officers or agents to pose as drug sellers, drug buyers, prostitutes, or johns.20 In the words of the California Supreme Court, [T]he rule is clear that ruses, stings, and decoys are permissible stratagems in the enforcement of criminal law, and they become invalid only when badgering or importuning takes place to an extent and degree that is likely to induce an otherwise law-abiding person to commit a crime21
For example, in Provigo Corp. v. Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board22 the court ruled that the use of underage decoys to attempt to purchase alcoholic beverages at retail outlets did not constitute entrapment even though the decoys were mature looking. Said the court, Although the decoys involved in the present case were apparently somewhat mature and self-assured in appearance and demeanor, it is uncontradicted that no pressure or overbearing conduct occurred that might suggest an entrapment.
Similarly, in Douglass v. Board of Medical Quality Assurance23 undercover agents posing as patients visited a physician named Douglass who was suspected of prescribing controlled drugs that were not medically indicated. In one instance, an agent was given prescriptions for Preludin and Seconal merely because she requested them. Another agent was given a prescription for Quaaludes because she liked the way they made her feel. In ruling such conduct did not constitute entrapment, the court observed, Here, the agents conduct simply provided Douglass the opportunity to engage in unprofessional conduct for the ordinary criminal motive of pecuniary gain. Douglass does not argue the agents badgered or cajoled him into providing the drugs and there is no evidence they did.
CRIMINAL PLAN ORIGINATED BY OFFICERS:
Entrapment does not result merely because an undercover officer or police agent generated or originated the plan to commit the crime with which the defendant was charged.24 In the words of the California Supreme Court, [W]e are not concerned with who first conceived or who willingly, or reluctantly, acquiesced in a criminal project.25
GAINING DEFENDANTS CONFIDENCE:
Entrapment will not result merely because officers took reasonable steps to assure the defendant that he was not being set up.26 As the California Supreme Court stated in People v. Barraza,27 There will be no entrapment when the official conduct is found to have gone no further than necessary to assure the suspect that he is not being set up. The police remain free to take reasonable, though restrained, steps to gain the confidence of suspects. A contrary rule would unduly hamper law enforcement; indeed, in the case of many of the so-called victimless crimes, it would tend to limit convictions to only the most gullible offenders.
OUTRAGEOUS POLICE CONDUCT
The defense known as outrageous police conduct is similar to the entrapment defense in that both are based on police misconduct and both will result in an acquittal if proven.28 Unlike entrapment, however, the outrageous police conduct defense is a very vague and broad defense with no strict requirements and no accepted definition.29
In California, the defense originated from this comment by the California Supreme Court in 1979: Sufficiently gross police misconduct could conceivably lead to a finding that conviction of the accused would violate his constitutional right to due process of law.30 Six years earlier, the United States Supreme Court made a similar observation. Said the Court, [W]e may some day be presented with a situation in which the conduct of law enforcement agents is so outrageous that due process principles would absolutely bar the government from invoking judicial processes to obtain a conviction.31
Nevertheless, to date neither the United States Supreme Court nor any appellate court in California has overturned a conviction on due process grounds based on outrageous conduct of police officers.32 For example, in Provigo Corp. v. Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board33 the defendants argued that an officers act of employing underage decoys to attempt to purchase liquor in retail stores constituted outrageous police conduct. The court responded, [I]t is doubtful the Constitution may be construed as forbidding the use of minor decoys. Assuming such a violation occurred, it was at most a technical one that could not be deemed so outrageous as to afford a defense to prosecution.
(Reprinted with the permission of the Alameda County District Attorneys Office.)
I ate the apple because the serpent beguiled me.
Eve.
Entrapment is a complete defense to a crime. This means a defendant is entitled to an acquittal if he committed the crime under circumstances constituting police entrapment.1 It does not matter that the evidence against the defendant was overwhelming, or that his guilt was undisputed.2 If he was entrapped, he goes free.
Although the penalty is severe, the courts believe it is justified by the need to discourage officers from engaging in overzealous tactics.3 In the words of Justice Frankfurter, The courts refuse to convict an entrapped defendant, not because his conduct falls outside the proscription of the statute, but because, even if his guilt be admitted, the methods employed on behalf of the Government to bring about conviction cannot be countenanced. Human nature is weak enough and sufficiently best by temptations without government adding to them and generating crime.4
In addition, entrapment is viewed as a type of lawless law enforcement, a substitute for skillful and scientific investigation, and a tactic which is sometimes rationalized under the theory that the end, when dealing with known criminals or the criminal classes, justifies the employment of illegal means.5
In this article we will look at how the courts determine if a defendant was entrapped, and what types of police conduct will and will not be deemed entrapment. We will also discuss the related defense know as outrageous police conduct.
WHAT IS ENTRAPMENT?
Entrapment occurs if the conduct of the investigating officers or their agents in dealing with the defendant would likely have induced a normally law-abiding person to commit the crime with which the defendant was charged.6
Because the existence of entrapment depends solely on the conduct of the investigating officers and their agents, the courts will not take into account the defendants conduct, character, intent, or criminal history.7 To give meaning to the officers conduct, however, the courts may consider various surrounding circumstances, such as transactions preceding the offense, the suspects response to the inducement of the officer, the gravity of the crime, and the difficulty of detecting instances of its commission.8
Keep in mind that this hypothetical law abiding person is not a pillar of the community who would never break the law. Although he is normally law-abiding, he will commit a crime - even a felony - if sufficiently motivated.
Accordingly, the main issue in entrapment cases is whether officers provided such motivation. As the California Supreme Court explained, What we do care about [in determining whether entrapment occurred] is how much and what manner of persuasion, pressure, and cajoling are brought to bear by law enforcement officials to induce persons to commit crimes.9
Prohibited police actions:
The following actions by officers or their agents constitute entrapment:
PRESSURE: Entrapment occurs if the defendant committed the crime as the result of an officers threats or other pressure such as badgering, coaxing, cajoling, or importuning.10 For example, in People v. Barraza11 the California Supreme Court ruled the defendant was entitled to a jury instruction on entrapment because there was evidence that the defendant, a recovering heroin addict with a steady job, sold heroin to an undercover police agent only because, (1) the agent telephoned him repeatedly at work; (2) he was afraid he would lose his job if the agent kept calling, so he agreed to meet with her; and (3) during the meeting, which lasted more than an hour, the agent importuned him relentlessly until his resistance was worn down and overcome.
CREATING AN UNUSUAL MOTIVE: Entrapment also occurs if the conduct of the officers would have generated in the mind of a normally law-abiding person an unusual and compelling motive to commit the crime.12 For example, entrapment may result if an officer persuaded the defendant to commit the crime as an act of friendship or sympathy instead of a desire for personal gain or some other common criminal motive.13
Note, however, that entrapment will not result merely because an undercover officer befriended the defendant. For example, in People v. Lee14 the defendant contended she was entrapped because a police agent befriended her, and that her decision to sell drugs to the agent was motivated by feelings of friendship. Although it was true that the agent and defendant were acquainted, the court observed they were hardly close friends. Said the court, Friendship ranges a spectrum of depth and emotions. People have best friends, dear friends, close friends, fair-weather friends [Defendant] simply failed to establish the type of friendship needing such protection.
MAKING THE CRIME UNUSUALLY ATTRACTIVE:
Entrapment may result if officers engaged in conduct that would have made the commission of the crime unusually attractive to a normally law-abiding person.15 For example, it might be entrapment if officers asserted the crime would not be detected or that it was not illegal, or if the defendant was offered an excessive amount of money or other exorbitant consideration for committing the crime.16
On the other hand, merely taking steps to facilitate the commission of the crime will generally not constitute entrapment. For example, in People v. Holloway17 the court ruled that an undercover officers sale of drugs to the defendant at less than resale value did not constitute entrapment because the officer sold the drugs only after trying to negotiate a higher price, which [the defendant] insisted he could not meet. And, in what appears to be a close case, the court upheld a jurys determination that the defendant in a warehouse burglary case was not entrapped as the result of an undercover officers assurances that he could get the defendant into the warehouse and, Itll just be a matter of walking in, loadin up and walkin out. No break in, no alarms or nothin.18
Permissible police actions:
The following actions by officers or their agents will not constitute entrapment:
CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT A CRIME:
Entrapment does not result merely because officers created a situation which made it possible for the defendant to commit the crime.19 This is because it is presumed that a normally law-abiding person would resist the temptation to commit a crime if officers did nothing more than give him an opportunity to do so.
Consequently, it is not entrapment to employ undercover officers or agents to pose as drug sellers, drug buyers, prostitutes, or johns.20 In the words of the California Supreme Court, [T]he rule is clear that ruses, stings, and decoys are permissible stratagems in the enforcement of criminal law, and they become invalid only when badgering or importuning takes place to an extent and degree that is likely to induce an otherwise law-abiding person to commit a crime21
For example, in Provigo Corp. v. Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board22 the court ruled that the use of underage decoys to attempt to purchase alcoholic beverages at retail outlets did not constitute entrapment even though the decoys were mature looking. Said the court, Although the decoys involved in the present case were apparently somewhat mature and self-assured in appearance and demeanor, it is uncontradicted that no pressure or overbearing conduct occurred that might suggest an entrapment.
Similarly, in Douglass v. Board of Medical Quality Assurance23 undercover agents posing as patients visited a physician named Douglass who was suspected of prescribing controlled drugs that were not medically indicated. In one instance, an agent was given prescriptions for Preludin and Seconal merely because she requested them. Another agent was given a prescription for Quaaludes because she liked the way they made her feel. In ruling such conduct did not constitute entrapment, the court observed, Here, the agents conduct simply provided Douglass the opportunity to engage in unprofessional conduct for the ordinary criminal motive of pecuniary gain. Douglass does not argue the agents badgered or cajoled him into providing the drugs and there is no evidence they did.
CRIMINAL PLAN ORIGINATED BY OFFICERS:
Entrapment does not result merely because an undercover officer or police agent generated or originated the plan to commit the crime with which the defendant was charged.24 In the words of the California Supreme Court, [W]e are not concerned with who first conceived or who willingly, or reluctantly, acquiesced in a criminal project.25
GAINING DEFENDANTS CONFIDENCE:
Entrapment will not result merely because officers took reasonable steps to assure the defendant that he was not being set up.26 As the California Supreme Court stated in People v. Barraza,27 There will be no entrapment when the official conduct is found to have gone no further than necessary to assure the suspect that he is not being set up. The police remain free to take reasonable, though restrained, steps to gain the confidence of suspects. A contrary rule would unduly hamper law enforcement; indeed, in the case of many of the so-called victimless crimes, it would tend to limit convictions to only the most gullible offenders.
OUTRAGEOUS POLICE CONDUCT
The defense known as outrageous police conduct is similar to the entrapment defense in that both are based on police misconduct and both will result in an acquittal if proven.28 Unlike entrapment, however, the outrageous police conduct defense is a very vague and broad defense with no strict requirements and no accepted definition.29
In California, the defense originated from this comment by the California Supreme Court in 1979: Sufficiently gross police misconduct could conceivably lead to a finding that conviction of the accused would violate his constitutional right to due process of law.30 Six years earlier, the United States Supreme Court made a similar observation. Said the Court, [W]e may some day be presented with a situation in which the conduct of law enforcement agents is so outrageous that due process principles would absolutely bar the government from invoking judicial processes to obtain a conviction.31
Nevertheless, to date neither the United States Supreme Court nor any appellate court in California has overturned a conviction on due process grounds based on outrageous conduct of police officers.32 For example, in Provigo Corp. v. Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board33 the defendants argued that an officers act of employing underage decoys to attempt to purchase liquor in retail stores constituted outrageous police conduct. The court responded, [I]t is doubtful the Constitution may be construed as forbidding the use of minor decoys. Assuming such a violation occurred, it was at most a technical one that could not be deemed so outrageous as to afford a defense to prosecution.
Cops also speed all the time and do **** they shouldn't do on and off duty too but I guess thats the perks of the job. Not saying its right but there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
One thing to do to **** them off is when they are speeding stay right with them a few cars lengths back. They won't pull you over and you can speed. LOL I did that yesterday coming home, I was going 85 is a 60 the whole way home right behind a Sate Trooper.
My buddy got pulled over doing that, we were going 90 in a 65. The cop hit his breaks and then waved for us to go around him then pulled us over. When the cop asked him if he knew how fast he was going he just looked at the cop and asked "I don't know how fast were you going?" LOL The cop got all red and walked back to his car and took off.
Man I hear JSO has Busa's as well. If they spent half as much money investigating **** as they did on vehicles to run down all the Honda's around here, there wouldn't be any crime in Jax...
^^ lol...thats a good idea...i was behind an undercover cop but i seen the lightbars next to his 3rd brake light when i was behind him doing like 80 on the turnpike an he flashed his lights so i backed off when i knew it was a cop but i guess he cant pull me over if i'm just following him...lol...is it illegal to accel hard up to a posted speed limit ?...or to just rev your engine because you want to?
and thanks stevehayes for clearing that entrapment up...that was a great little article...its more or less common sense prevails conduct....so if your induced into a street race then that is entrapment if your will to resist is worn down
and thanks stevehayes for clearing that entrapment up...that was a great little article...its more or less common sense prevails conduct....so if your induced into a street race then that is entrapment if your will to resist is worn down
Last edited by LamboW9; Sep 5, 2008 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
^^ lol...thats a good idea...i was behind an undercover cop but i seen the lightbars next to his 3rd brake light when i was behind him doing like 80 on the turnpike an he flashed his lights so i backed off when i knew it was a cop but i guess he cant pull me over if i'm just following him...lol...is it illegal to accel hard up to a posted speed limit ?...or to just rev your engine because you want to?
and thanks stevehayes for clearing that entrapment up...that was a great little article...its more or less common sense prevails conduct....so if your induced into a street race then that is entrapment if your will to resist is worn down
and thanks stevehayes for clearing that entrapment up...that was a great little article...its more or less common sense prevails conduct....so if your induced into a street race then that is entrapment if your will to resist is worn down
at least in CA you can
I know that I have personally been pulled over 2 times for hard accelleration since I have been in Florida now. Both times where by cops by Atlantic and Neptune Beach.. luckily no ticket .. just the warning to watch it since public roads are not a race track.
If a police officer repeatedly revs on you light after light and you take the bait after a few times then yes that would be entrapment. My neighbor is a sheriff in Jax and told me that they have lost 3 cases already due to this type behavior from officers.
Here in Jacksonville we have everything from Tahoe's to STI's as undercover cop cars so they are going to try and get you what ever way they can.
Here in Jacksonville we have everything from Tahoe's to STI's as undercover cop cars so they are going to try and get you what ever way they can.
If they lost the case it was more then them repeatedly revving their motors. Something else happened that he did not know about.
REVVING IS NOT ENTRAPMENT. They car rev the car till the engine blows at the end of the day you DO NOT have to race them. Now if they were swerving into your lane, tailgating you, ect to where you felt that you could be endangered then yes that is entrapment, revving an engine is not going to hurt you or your car.
If they lost the case it was more then them repeatedly revving their motors. Something else happened that he did not know about.
If they lost the case it was more then them repeatedly revving their motors. Something else happened that he did not know about.
It was the act of revving and of talking to the other drivers at lights that got them dismissed. It is the same principal of an undercover vice cop.. they can lead you on but you have to initiate the transaction otherwise it is constituted as entrapment and therfore dismissed.
wow that is scary i know i would of raced him good thing we dont have them around here we have chargers but not undercover we only have the crappy undercover fords which r obvious to me i always notice them
It was the act of revving and of talking to the other drivers at lights that got them dismissed. It is the same principal of an undercover vice cop.. they can lead you on but you have to initiate the transaction otherwise it is constituted as entrapment and therfore dismissed.
I'd say though that repeatedly revving and talking to other drivers at lights goes a bit beyond bouncing a stopped car in neutral off the limiter a couple times. Whether entrapment happened or not is really up to the courts, but a simple *vroom vroom* challenge from a car in another lane is well within the abilities of most reasonable drivers to resist. What a similar person (in this case, a reasonable driver) is most likely to do in a given situation is usually used as a benchmark when making a determination of coercion or entrapment.
Entrapment occurs if the conduct of the investigating officers or their agents in dealing with the defendant would “likely” have induced a “normally law-abiding person” to commit the crime with which the defendant was charged.
...
Keep in mind that this hypothetical “law abiding” person is not a pillar of the community who would never break the law. Although he is normally law-abiding, he will commit a crime - even a felony - if sufficiently motivated.
...
Keep in mind that this hypothetical “law abiding” person is not a pillar of the community who would never break the law. Although he is normally law-abiding, he will commit a crime - even a felony - if sufficiently motivated.
LamboW9, yes, in certain states/districts accelerating at a rate far exceeding the prevailing rate of traffic is considered an unsafe start. Cops in CO will give a ticket for that, chirping the tires is considered an unsafe start in most places too, unless there are extenuating circumstances (rain, ice, slippery road... etc...).
^^^
True dat on chirping/spinning the tires. I got a ticket pulling out from a gas station in my S-10 (M5, 4.3L) and chirped/spun the tires for a second since there was some loose gravel on the road. Bla...
So I got my digital cam, went back, and took a ton of pics. Then I went down to the station, showed them the ticket and the pics. They dropped it, but still, pain in the ass.
True dat on chirping/spinning the tires. I got a ticket pulling out from a gas station in my S-10 (M5, 4.3L) and chirped/spun the tires for a second since there was some loose gravel on the road. Bla...
So I got my digital cam, went back, and took a ton of pics. Then I went down to the station, showed them the ticket and the pics. They dropped it, but still, pain in the ass.
It was the act of revving and of talking to the other drivers at lights that got them dismissed. It is the same principal of an undercover vice cop.. they can lead you on but you have to initiate the transaction otherwise it is constituted as entrapment and therfore dismissed.
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