Is it possible: Fast LSJ?
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Joined: 03-30-06
Posts: 5,489
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From: Chandler, AZ
Originally Posted by mi6_
First off an INDY (IRL) car runs almost entirely on ovals. They run on banked corners and do not need much downforce, hence they only run 600-800 lbs of downforce depending on the track. CHAMPCAR runs mostly on road circuits and a few ovals. They run much more downforce typically than an INDY car would run. Six years ago, CART existed before it broke apart into the IRL and CHAMAPCAR.
Second, no open wheel race car including an Indy car produces 4,000 lbs of downforce. If it did, it wouldn't go much faster than 100 MPH. A Formula 1 car (fastest road circuit cars in the world) weigh 605 Kg with a driver. At maximum, they make about 1300 Kg of downforce. They are able to corner in excess of 4 lateral g's, accelerate at up to 3.5 g's and exceed 5 g's under braking. A F1 car is capable of accelerating from 0-100-0MPH in 6 seconds. They will go around a road course way quicker than a CHAMPCAR would. An F1 car in full downforce wings produces about 1300 Kg's of downforce and is only to obtain about 180 MPH with their 900 HP 3.0L V10s (now 2.4L 750 HP V8s).
INDY cars are built more for top speed than high cornering loads. That is why they obtain such high speeds (240+ MPH). They are the fastest open wheel race cars (in terms of top speed). With banked cornering and wide turns, they need to run very little downforce compared to a Formula 1 car or a CHAMPCAR who would run on a road coarse.
A car weighing about 1400 lbs producing 4,000 lbs of downforce would need about 1500 HP to reach 200 MPH. None of the current regulations in CHAMPCAR, IRL, or Formula 1 allow an open wheel race car to run anywhere near 4,000 lbs of downforce.
Also, in terms of sheer speed, a Top Fuel dragster would be the fastest cars. They are capable of running mid-4 second quarter miles at well over 300 MPH. The driver's experience 4.5 g's of acceleration when leaving the box, and pull up to 6 g's of deceleration when the release their drag parachute and begine to slow down.
Second, no open wheel race car including an Indy car produces 4,000 lbs of downforce. If it did, it wouldn't go much faster than 100 MPH. A Formula 1 car (fastest road circuit cars in the world) weigh 605 Kg with a driver. At maximum, they make about 1300 Kg of downforce. They are able to corner in excess of 4 lateral g's, accelerate at up to 3.5 g's and exceed 5 g's under braking. A F1 car is capable of accelerating from 0-100-0MPH in 6 seconds. They will go around a road course way quicker than a CHAMPCAR would. An F1 car in full downforce wings produces about 1300 Kg's of downforce and is only to obtain about 180 MPH with their 900 HP 3.0L V10s (now 2.4L 750 HP V8s).
INDY cars are built more for top speed than high cornering loads. That is why they obtain such high speeds (240+ MPH). They are the fastest open wheel race cars (in terms of top speed). With banked cornering and wide turns, they need to run very little downforce compared to a Formula 1 car or a CHAMPCAR who would run on a road coarse.
A car weighing about 1400 lbs producing 4,000 lbs of downforce would need about 1500 HP to reach 200 MPH. None of the current regulations in CHAMPCAR, IRL, or Formula 1 allow an open wheel race car to run anywhere near 4,000 lbs of downforce.
Also, in terms of sheer speed, a Top Fuel dragster would be the fastest cars. They are capable of running mid-4 second quarter miles at well over 300 MPH. The driver's experience 4.5 g's of acceleration when leaving the box, and pull up to 6 g's of deceleration when the release their drag parachute and begine to slow down.
This is the article in which I got my information. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, as you seem pretty knowledgeable, but there may be more than one authority on the topic.
"An IRL race car is shaped and tuned to make maximum use of
ground effect," said Kevin Bayless, a chassis and aerodynamics consultant
for GM Racing who works closely with Chevrolet teams. "Ground effect is
the interaction between the moving vehicle and the stationary track
surface. The underside of the sidepods forms a venturi between the car and
the track. The air beneath the sidepod accelerates as it moves through the
venturi, creating a low pressure area. The difference in pressure between
the upper and lower surfaces of the sidepod produces downforce, or negative
lift."
Downforce is the Holy Grail of auto racing because it
dramatically increases traction by forcing the tires against the pavement.
Increasing the vertical force on the tires with aerodynamic loads increases
the amount of lateral force they can produce. More grip means faster
cornering speeds and quicker lap times. An Indy car produces so much
downforce at speed that it could literally drive upside down on the ceiling
of a tunnel.
"The downside of downforce is that it almost always comes with the
penalty of drag," Bayless explained. "Drag is the fore-and-aft force that
pushes back against the car and slows it down."
Drag is the resistance of a body moving through the air. For example,
the push you feel when you put your hand outside of a moving car is drag.
The term "coefficient of drag," or Cd, is a reflection of the aerodynamic
efficiency of a body's shape. Using the same example, when you turn your
palm toward the wind, the coefficient of drag is high; when you turn your
hand sideways, the drag is reduced.
The proverbial barn door has a Cd around 1.1; a streamlined teardrop
has a Cd in the range of 0.1. While the production Corvette coupe that
paces IRL events is an aerodynamic standout with a 0.29 Cd, an Indy car's
drag-producing wings and underbody can produce a Cd as high as 0.9 when
adjusted for maximum downforce.
"The amount of downforce an IRL race car produces can be adjusted to
suit various tracks," Bayless continued. "At a high-speed track like
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the cars are trimmed out to produce 1,700
to 2,000 pounds of downforce with minimum drag. On the other had, at a
one-mile track like Nazareth, the cars are set up to produce up to 4,000
pounds of downforce. On a short oval, the increase in corner speeds
produced by the extra downforce more than compensates for the speed penalty
produced by additional drag on the straights."
ground effect," said Kevin Bayless, a chassis and aerodynamics consultant
for GM Racing who works closely with Chevrolet teams. "Ground effect is
the interaction between the moving vehicle and the stationary track
surface. The underside of the sidepods forms a venturi between the car and
the track. The air beneath the sidepod accelerates as it moves through the
venturi, creating a low pressure area. The difference in pressure between
the upper and lower surfaces of the sidepod produces downforce, or negative
lift."
Downforce is the Holy Grail of auto racing because it
dramatically increases traction by forcing the tires against the pavement.
Increasing the vertical force on the tires with aerodynamic loads increases
the amount of lateral force they can produce. More grip means faster
cornering speeds and quicker lap times. An Indy car produces so much
downforce at speed that it could literally drive upside down on the ceiling
of a tunnel.
"The downside of downforce is that it almost always comes with the
penalty of drag," Bayless explained. "Drag is the fore-and-aft force that
pushes back against the car and slows it down."
Drag is the resistance of a body moving through the air. For example,
the push you feel when you put your hand outside of a moving car is drag.
The term "coefficient of drag," or Cd, is a reflection of the aerodynamic
efficiency of a body's shape. Using the same example, when you turn your
palm toward the wind, the coefficient of drag is high; when you turn your
hand sideways, the drag is reduced.
The proverbial barn door has a Cd around 1.1; a streamlined teardrop
has a Cd in the range of 0.1. While the production Corvette coupe that
paces IRL events is an aerodynamic standout with a 0.29 Cd, an Indy car's
drag-producing wings and underbody can produce a Cd as high as 0.9 when
adjusted for maximum downforce.
"The amount of downforce an IRL race car produces can be adjusted to
suit various tracks," Bayless continued. "At a high-speed track like
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the cars are trimmed out to produce 1,700
to 2,000 pounds of downforce with minimum drag. On the other had, at a
one-mile track like Nazareth, the cars are set up to produce up to 4,000
pounds of downforce. On a short oval, the increase in corner speeds
produced by the extra downforce more than compensates for the speed penalty
produced by additional drag on the straights."
Now perhaps when he mentions 4000lb of downforce, he's referring to the downforce + weight of the car? That would match your numbers pretty closely. 1300kg of downforce + the 605kg of car and driver is a shade over 4000lb. I'm not trying to prove people wrong, but I always want to make sure I have the right info for my own piece of mind, you know?
Senior Member
Joined: 09-14-05
Posts: 6,697
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From: Phx, AZ
Originally Posted by Tomtwtwtw
This is the article in which I got my information. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, as you seem pretty knowledgeable, but there may be more than one authority on the topic.
Now perhaps when he mentions 4000lb of downforce, he's referring to the downforce + weight of the car? That would match your numbers pretty closely. 1300kg of downforce + the 605kg of car and driver is a shade over 4000lb. I'm not trying to prove people wrong, but I always want to make sure I have the right info for my own piece of mind, you know?
Now perhaps when he mentions 4000lb of downforce, he's referring to the downforce + weight of the car? That would match your numbers pretty closely. 1300kg of downforce + the 605kg of car and driver is a shade over 4000lb. I'm not trying to prove people wrong, but I always want to make sure I have the right info for my own piece of mind, you know?
Senior Member
Joined: 02-10-06
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 1
From: Dayton, OH
I haven't read through all this and don't care to...there is a Black Cobalt SS in the Miami area with a Kenne Bell Supercharger I hear that spanks the hell out of a Dodge SRT4 w/ Stage 3 and toys and more...go find him and you will have your "race."
Don't forget, sometimes the fastest cars aren't on forums...
Don't forget, sometimes the fastest cars aren't on forums...
Senior Member
Joined: 08-19-05
Posts: 3,018
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From: Horseheads, NY
Where the hell did he go...and what does he think he is gonna trap with that setup...I had a intake, injector, tune, 3.5" dp and 3" exhausted 06 sti race me from a roll and i beat him once and he slowly slowly crept the other few times...really only on my shifts since the synchros were shot...nothing the new mods wont fix!
Dan
Dan
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Joined: 02-21-06
Posts: 3,454
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
I'll tell you what... I have respect for both the LSJ Cobalt and the STI... considering I own a 2.4L Cobalt myself.
But I will say this: if you give me $14,995.00 to modify my car, I'll run you as many times as you'd like. Base MSRP of an STI is $32,995. My car was under $18k out the door. Pay me that difference, let me mod the Cobalt, then we'll have even investments. Guarantee it'll be a fun time.
That's what I don't understand about these kinds of threads.
But I will say this: if you give me $14,995.00 to modify my car, I'll run you as many times as you'd like. Base MSRP of an STI is $32,995. My car was under $18k out the door. Pay me that difference, let me mod the Cobalt, then we'll have even investments. Guarantee it'll be a fun time.
That's what I don't understand about these kinds of threads.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-10-06
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 1
From: Dayton, OH
Originally Posted by savior
what does a stg 3 srt-4 put down?
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Joined: 09-14-05
Posts: 6,697
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From: Phx, AZ
Originally Posted by vandy0419
Well with ONLY the Stage 3 they put down over 315whp and 340lb/ft but I hear the guy also had an exhaust and/or downpipe. For someone to say they were destroyed by a car...I doubt the CSS had a couple horsepower more, it had to be a good margin.
Originally Posted by silverSS
i wish there were fast cobalts in FL............or even redlines
Originally Posted by vandy0419
I haven't read through all this and don't care to...there is a Black Cobalt SS in the Miami area with a Kenne Bell Supercharger I hear that spanks the hell out of a Dodge SRT4 w/ Stage 3 and toys and more...go find him and you will have your "race."
Don't forget, sometimes the fastest cars aren't on forums...
Don't forget, sometimes the fastest cars aren't on forums...
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Joined: 01-15-05
Posts: 5,126
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa
Originally Posted by savior
what does a stg 3 srt-4 put down?
Originally Posted by Alex47
340ish on pump gas and 390ish on race gas. 1/4: 11.874 @ 118.24
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Joined: 02-08-06
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From: Shelby Twp MI
Originally Posted by 2006STI365
Thanks! but ive been around the site for a while, like i said, mods are in a few posts above, i ran a 13.3@101 bone stock
Originally Posted by 2006STI365
No current times as of now, im waiting for more goodies then new times will be here
Your AWD so you hook but your mph is nothing short of impressive.
Originally Posted by 2006STI365
No current times as of now, im waiting for more goodies then new times will be here
Originally Posted by 2006STI365
ESX 365 kit with APS Header/Upipe and a few other bolt on's
Originally Posted by 2006STI365
with the mods i will have at the end of the week i will be in the low 12's high 11's.
Once you mod it's all about how much money you really want to spend to go fast.
With enough money anything can be made fast.
There are cobalts in the 7's. Jason Hunts mid 7 sec Cobalt will be comming to Florida.
http://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=120763
The thread below has some pics of a few fast cobalts mainly 1 mid 9 sec cobalt and that 7 sec one above.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...fastest+cobalt
More info here...
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersou.../race_shop.htm
Haven't seen any STI do anything faster then 9's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The fastest Suburu was a 9 sec pass by this car below.
http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/ga...-2-04/0159.jpg
So only 1 fast 9 sec Suburu drag car.... all other street cars are in the 12,11, and a select few 10 sec cars. Not really impressed since anyone can go 9's.
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Platinum Member
Joined: 06-24-05
Posts: 14,265
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From: California
Originally Posted by rollingboostedss
I know someone with a black SS that will **** all over you POS STI if you ever happen to make it up to Maryland which is north of you if you didn't know and can't look at a map, I'm Pretty sure he would Give you 5 and move with no problem. I don't know why I made the comment it will never happen. I guess I hate lil ***** like this that come onto a fourm talking like they are the biggest ***** around. up where Im from you would get the **** knocked out of you if You pulled that kind of ****. I just give fair warning on who you run off at the mouth with
Edit: didn't see that this was 8 pages long but I still made my point.
Edit: didn't see that this was 8 pages long but I still made my point.
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Joined: 05-01-05
Posts: 3,628
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From: USA
id love to run the kenne bell cobalt, id even drive down to him to take the loss, or any other LSJ in the area, i either see chicks, or stock ones.....
supposedly i ran a "fast lsj" that lives in ft. meyers with some "backyard tune" i was on low boost and got him by about a car 1/2 with a 300lb passenger
best regards
silverss
supposedly i ran a "fast lsj" that lives in ft. meyers with some "backyard tune" i was on low boost and got him by about a car 1/2 with a 300lb passenger
best regards
silverss
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From: USA
Originally Posted by ENUFPWR
To come on the board with a STI that runs 13.1 at 101mph is nothing special.
Your AWD so you hook but your mph is nothing short of impressive.
Once you mod it's all about how much money you really want to spend to go fast.
With enough money anything can be made fast.
There are cobalts in the 7's. Jason Hunts mid 7 sec Cobalt will be comming to Florida.
http://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=120763
The thread below has some pics of a few fast cobalts mainly 1 mid 9 sec cobalt and that 7 sec one above.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...fastest+cobalt
More info here...
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersou.../race_shop.htm
Haven't seen any STI do anything faster then 9's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The fastest Suburu was a 9 sec pass by this car below.
http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/ga...-2-04/0159.jpg
So only 1 fast 9 sec Suburu drag car.... all other street cars are in the 12,11, and a select few 10 sec cars. Not really impressed since anyone can go 9's.
Your AWD so you hook but your mph is nothing short of impressive.
Once you mod it's all about how much money you really want to spend to go fast.
With enough money anything can be made fast.
There are cobalts in the 7's. Jason Hunts mid 7 sec Cobalt will be comming to Florida.
http://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=120763
The thread below has some pics of a few fast cobalts mainly 1 mid 9 sec cobalt and that 7 sec one above.
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...fastest+cobalt
More info here...
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersou.../race_shop.htm
Haven't seen any STI do anything faster then 9's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The fastest Suburu was a 9 sec pass by this car below.
http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/ga...-2-04/0159.jpg
So only 1 fast 9 sec Suburu drag car.... all other street cars are in the 12,11, and a select few 10 sec cars. Not really impressed since anyone can go 9's.
there is a guy in australia with one of the fastest street legal STi's his car does a wheelie, get an AWD car to do a wheelie
i agree STi should be picking on blown cobra's gto's evo's, we are in a toally diff leauge.
Now to change the topic around a little bit, im going to ask, is there any fast LSJ's in florida, RUNNING THE M62, not a kenne bell thats in speculation
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Joined: 08-12-06
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From: tallahassee, florida
My car not a chance, but...
I have a very lightly modded ss/sc in tallahassee, but my brother on the other hand will put a hurtin on you ...hes in ft lauderdale and has a NEON SRT-4 that would absolutely EAT UR STI, gimme a pm if u want me to set something up
