My point still stands though. Anything short of a personal attack on an employee of a vendor, not personal experiences, oppinions of products/customers service or dislike of the way a company handles themselves, should ever be deleted.

I'm not defending one side or another here, but I think it's a fair point to bring up.

 

Its funny GMtech posts only in the ZZP posts, its like hes got a person vendetta out for them cause they wouldnt give him a free EFR to test on his Sky so he hates them now.

To the OP, sorry about your engine problems. but I do see exsoccors point. You had their engine installed by a company that knows nothing about our cars, why would you make that mistake? ZZP cant warranty something when it was out of their hands and installed by a shop that is inexperienced in Ecotec Motors.

 

it wasn't anything that he hasn't posted before. just a rehash lol.

 

I will PM the copy of my thread post to anyone that would like to see it. I have no secrets to hide. After all, the mod already sent what I wrote to ZZP. AFTER IT WAS IMMEDIATELY DELETED. So ZZP got to see it, but the community here could not.

If I'm banned for this I will truly be amazed at how this forum is run.

BTW, there are MANY more posts made by me, under my same screen name, that do not show up in my history anymore. I've been a member on here longer than it shows.

 

read my entire post.

guess what, i had an engine failure too. i went about it correctly and we agreed on how to fix it. the new one had some blow by issues, i talked with matt on how to correct it, ended up changing the entire pcv system. guess what no more problems. i really have a hard time believing that they did nothing to help him.

 

Hello to everyone- this is Matt from ZZP. I'd like to take a few minutes to try to explain some things from my point of view. When Jeb first contacted us and worked with Steve to purchase a motor, everything went smoothly. Steve and Jeb got along well and there were no issues. We shipped out a motor in a short period of time and Jeb had it installed. Unfortunately, the shop that installed the motor forgot to install the fuel pump roller, so the car would not start. I was a bit surprised to see a thread started right away titled "zzp stage 1 cams with hpfp cam now p0087." Now it might not have been meant to blame ZZP for the problem, but it comes across that way on a forum. Either way, I diagnosed the issue, informed Jeb of what the problem was, he went to the shop and checked, and sure enough- the roller was not in there. Problem solved. Next- we move on. Jeb contacted me and said that he was burning some oil. He stated, "After a hard pull to 7k, upon decal, I get smoke for about 1 second then it clears up. This is the only time the engine ever smokes." We did not know what the problem was, but I mentioned the turbo as a possibility. Jeb had his turbo rebuilt and also found an issue with his PCV system. On January 2nd, he posted, "The Hahn S20G has been rebuilt. When I redesigned my engine bay I had the 2 ports in the head going into 1 T then into a catch can vented to atmosphere. That was very, very bad. It vented like **** and cause oil to not drain properly from the turbo. This caused caking oil in the innards (technical term) and **** out the turbo. Now I have it plumed properly, a perfect working turbo, and spool about 500 rpm sooner." It seemed to me that the oil issue was cured. However, Jeb contacted me again. On February 10, he stated, "After the car sits for a while, and I start it, blue smoke comes out of the exhaust for a few seconds then clears up." At this time, I recommended checking the valve seals. Jeb was able to use a bore scope at some point and reported that two pistons seemed to be wet compared to others. I suggested checking the valve seals on those cylinders, but I do not know if that was done. Next, Jeb stated that he was using a lot of oil, which I said was not likely from the valveseals in the volume that he stated. At this point, I said that there were changing oil issues and that we need to diagnose accordingly. Jeb then stated that the issue was the same since day one, but much of what I have read would make it seem otherwise. At this point, I asked Jeb to make sure that the PCV valve was installed in the intake manifold. I do not believe that was ever checked, however. At some point, Jeb asked about shipping the car to us and I agreed that it would be a good idea. I stated that if we find any type of problem with anything that we sold him, that it would be fully covered. It seemed like a very fair offer to me, but Jeb asked for more. He asked for us to pay to have the car shipped to our shop. I explained that we can not agree to do something like that when we don't know what is wrong with the car. I also stated that if the issue was in fact our fault or if there were bad valve seals, that we would have no problem going beyond our warranty policy to make it right. Unfortunately, Jeb wanted us to go a step further and agree to cover everything up front. I explained that it would be a bad idea because that can cause a serious issue when something happens such as his car shows up here, we find that there is no pcv valve in his intake, and we install one. We shouldn't have to pay to ship someone's car to our shop and back and fix a problem that had nothing to do with us. Jeb did not like our stance and did not trust us to do the right thing if the problem was actually our fault, so now we have come to this situation.

Here are my comments on the situation-
1. I understand Jeb's frustration. He is not an engine builder and he has limited experience in this area. For that reason, he purchased an engine based on the idea that it should be trouble free. Therefore, when there are troubles, he is going to be frustrated.

2. There is a lot more that can go wrong with an engine and/or engine install than most people could imagine.

Something simple like having the PCV system connected wrong while the engine was being broke in can cause a ring seal issue. In this case, the PCV system was configured incorrectly. ZZP did not set this up.

Having a bad fuel injector that is spraying way too much fuel in one cylinder can cause a ring seal issue. In this case, there was a bad injector. ZZP did not provide this injector.

Am I saying that one of these issues caused the problem? Absolutely not. However, without ever working on this car, we have already heard about multiple issues outside of our control that can cause a problem like Jeb is experiencing. Does that mean it was not our fault? Of course not. It simply means that it would be foolish to agree to cover everything at this point in time.

To comment on the accusations that we would just get the car and say that it's someone elses fault- Those claims are completely unfounded. We have always stood behind our work, and we will continue to. When chain sets failed in dozens of 3800 motors, all of the other vendors that were selling the exact same part said too bad. The company that manufactured the chain sets said too bad. ZZP stepped up, replaced dozens of chain sets, informed the community about the issue, and went as far as repairing several severely damaged motors for free. I use that example because it was a clear cut case where many vendors were in the exact same situation. There are many more similar situations where the owner of ZZP has stepped up and said, "Just fix it and don't charge him" in order to remove any doubt that we did the right thing. In fact, we recently had a case where a customer was running our engine and turbo kit and had his machanic change the wastegate spring. He left a fitting loose and it backed out causing the S259 turbo to over boost (likely to 50+ psi) and caused a head gasket failure which boosted the cooling system and cracked a water jacket. When we diagnosed this issue, the owner of ZZP actually said to cover it- no cost to the customer. Yes, in a clear-cut case of negligence well outside of our shop, the customer is getting a new motor for free. I have no reason to believe that this case would be any different. Unfortunately, Jeb did not trust us to take care of him, so now we are being thrown under the bus before we even had a chance to do the right thing.

Sorry for the long post, but this needed to be said. We all like Jeb and we want his car to be right. I still think this issue can be worked out if the car is shipped to ZZP, so the offer still stands. Thanks for your time.

 

If the motor wasn't opened how is installing it gonna make it burn oil. The op went over stuff with Matt numerous days to fix issues. Perfect customer service.

 

OP if you aren't ready to incur unseen costs and accidents, then don't do an all out build on a car.


/thread.


take it to pm's if you have anything left to say to them. this is why i get rid of threads like this. thread was made at 5:45, it's now 8:10 and zzp still hasn't posted yet everyone else is jumping on the anti zzp bandwagon when none of them are even signed on.

take it to pm's.




and for those who say "F*ck the mods" "mods don't do anything" "buncha ****'s"..... i actually had plans tonight and needed to leave about 7:45. guess who stayed here and will now be about 30minutes late to something import to me so i could take care of this **** and baby sit...

 

okay as i was writing my post matt did post.

i'll reopen this since he's here.


matt you have my number, if you don't then i know ryan does just text me when you're done.

 

My post went in as most was posting also.

 

Spot reserved for when I get to a computer.

 

Matt's post coincides with the help that I've gotten from ZZP. Not as big of a chunk of change but I've had multiple, albeit stupid questions that I asked them and they explained it when I didn't know what I was doing. The 2.4tb they sent me, that off of MY diagnosis (which turned out to be correct) was bad, Tim had a new one to me in 2-3 days at 0 cost to me and said toss the bad one. That my friends is customer service and going the extra mile.
The haters and people with personal vendettas for whatever reason will always say "well zzp is twisting my story" etc etc, but after my experiences I can say this is 99% of the time probably not the case. Can some things slip through the cracks? Maybe. Is zzp still offering to help? Yup.

 

[QUOTE=EXsoccer1921;6375124


matt you have my number, if you don't then i know ryan does just text me when you're done.[/QUOTE]

Really? OK.

 

Really? I should expect to pay 2k in repair costs when buying a built long block. Also mod sorry I wasted
your time also. I appear good at doing that.

 

I am not taking sides one way or the other, but its clear to me that the installing shop did not know enough to check certain things. Its also clear that the pcv system was very badly screwed up not zzp's fault at all.
its clear to me that Matt posted a reasonable reply. Ii suggest the OP ship the car to ZZP. Reliable are very good I would expect 500 lexington to grand rapids.
But in my limited experience, boost and an incorrect PCV routing and tunes done by folks other than the vendor (ZZP ) can lead to tears.
OP you have my sympathy, but you really did not do this the right way. Direct to Zoomer is the correct way. This forum is not the right way, in my opinion. Good luck OP I hope this gets fixed for you and your wife's health issues resolves positively.

 

I have to add that the claims that I blamed the OP and that I said that we would not cover anything were taken out of context and mis-represented here. I suggested the possibility that it could be something that had nothing to do with ZZP. I also stated that we should not be held responsible for shipping the car if another shop or another component on the car caused issues. I also concluded this each and every time by stating that we often go well beyond our standard warranty policy if we are found to be at fault. Honestly, I think the current situation has been brought on by a money issue. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that a good relationship was suddenly halted when the OP could not afford to ship his car here. While I'd like to be able to step up and pay for that on ZZPs expense, that is not a good idea. This is a heavily modified vehicle. Let's be realistic- Serious mod cars often have a lot of issues to sort out. Does anyone think it would be a good idea for ZZP to get into the habit of shipping everyone's project cars to our shop for free diagnosis and repairs after someone else get's done installing a bunch of parts? That doesn't sound right to me.

 

the fact Matt & ZZP are still willing to help speaks very loudly for their customer service

 

^^^ This

 

I say it needs to be more like when I had my shop and built race engines. If I don't instal it no warranty. That way I'm covered from issues and can't blame or be blamed. You don't warranty highly modified cars anyway. Only thing I covered was startup. We break out cars in at the track. I've never had a motor come about or back because of my build. But I do it all.

 

Thanks. I should have commented on this as well. For the people that thought we would come in here and start arguing or calling the customer names- We don't operate like that. Arguing with a competing vendor or someone who is consistantly anti-zzp on the forums is a different situation. We don't treat good customers poorly.

 

i'm not on my moderator account.


i'm sorry, do you have a problem with me telling someone to text me when the issue/thread is resolved so i can lock it and prevent further 3rd party people who aren't involved to post and clutter up the thread with random bullshit posts that have no impact other than just stirring the pot and causing trouble for others?

 

I can understand that method, but the fact that we serve limited markets over a wide area, a very small percentage of the products that we sell actually get installed here. We still want to take care of our customers, though. I think moving forward that we might try harder to encourage customers to have larger builds completed at our shop, or maybe we need to compile a list of zzp approved shops who we would work with to offer a better warranty in situations like this. In this case, the engine was installed at a shop that is not able to figure out why the engine is smoking, yet the OP somewhat expects ZZP to figure it out from 500 miles away. It's a tough situation for us.

 

Boom.

 

I also was not the slightest bit argumentative in my communication with the OP. I think I may have offended him when I brought up that he described the smoking issue as something different at first. He may have took it like I was accusing him of trying to change his story. However, I was merely pointing out that the problem seems to have changed and that is why the diagnosis has sent us in different directions.

 

Lol at this forum.