Quirks/Ups and Downs of TC's
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From: UNDER YOUR BED
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From: Plainfield, IL
<----------------9' rear stemming from blown 10 bolt..even though i was an exception and made it to 99k miles with 400hp
here's the scoop from vince at trifecta performance.
1. The ECU tracks a certain number of flash sessions in its memory (probably somewhere around 10-20). It stores information about the calibration that was in its memory such as the part number, checksums and calibration verification numbers. In theory this information could be used to be ascertain how many times an ECU was flashed and whether it was flashed with a stock or non-stock calibration.
2. The dealerships use the Tech2 for flashing on-board modules, such as the ECU. The Tech2 might be able to tell the dealer if the ECU currently has a non-stock flash on it, but it cannot read out the flash session history. But in the case of a significant warranty claim, I would expect the factory has the ability to gather this information.
3. It is my understanding that it is illegal per warranty law to automatically void a warranty just because an aftermarket product (including a custom tune) was installed on the vehicle although I hear more and more stories about service departments using scare tactics with customers, saying if you even breathe on the ECU it will void the warranty. By doing this they are essentially asking the customer to play chicken with the manufacturer and Id say in maybe 50% of the cases this is enough to convince most people not to flash the ECU. I am not a warranty law expert though.
4. An ex-GM tech that works at a local speed shop told me the dealerships dont check anything if theres a blown engine warranty job - they just replace it and move on.
5. Even if one was able to get around the whole ECU reflash issue by buying a spare ECU and using that for their custom tune, in the newer cars there are other modules in the vehicle that record data about the vehicle (like an airplanes flight data recorder). In the event of a significant warranty claim the factory might be able to analyze these modules and determine the vehicle, at the time of failure had been experiencing acceleration ramps outside the normal specifications and might deduce there was some sort of modification to the vehicle, and hence might deny a warranty claim.
6. There are companies out there touting stealth tunes. This is a total sham. Stealth tunes rely on modifying the ECMs code to ignore the accuracy of the checksum and calibration verification numbers and then use factory values so to the Tech2 sees a factory tune. However, ECU reflash history is still in the ECU, and in the case of a significant warranty claim, the factory would probably examine every bit and byte in that ECU and discover the custom tune.
7. As recently as last year the local Cobalt owner who offered his car up for R&D to develop the 2.2 tune blew up his transmission and was able to get it replaced under warranty despite the dealership finding a custom tune in the ECU. They gave him a hard time about it but they still replaced the transmission.
neither trifecta nor I will lie to you guys, that's bad business, putting a grade 8 bolt where a grade 5 bolt used to be can void your warranty, but they still have to prove what you did caused damage to the part you are requesting to be replaced. No aftermarket part (including tuning) can void your warranty, it's in your warranty paperwork and manual.
1. The ECU tracks a certain number of flash sessions in its memory (probably somewhere around 10-20). It stores information about the calibration that was in its memory such as the part number, checksums and calibration verification numbers. In theory this information could be used to be ascertain how many times an ECU was flashed and whether it was flashed with a stock or non-stock calibration.
2. The dealerships use the Tech2 for flashing on-board modules, such as the ECU. The Tech2 might be able to tell the dealer if the ECU currently has a non-stock flash on it, but it cannot read out the flash session history. But in the case of a significant warranty claim, I would expect the factory has the ability to gather this information.
3. It is my understanding that it is illegal per warranty law to automatically void a warranty just because an aftermarket product (including a custom tune) was installed on the vehicle although I hear more and more stories about service departments using scare tactics with customers, saying if you even breathe on the ECU it will void the warranty. By doing this they are essentially asking the customer to play chicken with the manufacturer and Id say in maybe 50% of the cases this is enough to convince most people not to flash the ECU. I am not a warranty law expert though.
4. An ex-GM tech that works at a local speed shop told me the dealerships dont check anything if theres a blown engine warranty job - they just replace it and move on.
5. Even if one was able to get around the whole ECU reflash issue by buying a spare ECU and using that for their custom tune, in the newer cars there are other modules in the vehicle that record data about the vehicle (like an airplanes flight data recorder). In the event of a significant warranty claim the factory might be able to analyze these modules and determine the vehicle, at the time of failure had been experiencing acceleration ramps outside the normal specifications and might deduce there was some sort of modification to the vehicle, and hence might deny a warranty claim.
6. There are companies out there touting stealth tunes. This is a total sham. Stealth tunes rely on modifying the ECMs code to ignore the accuracy of the checksum and calibration verification numbers and then use factory values so to the Tech2 sees a factory tune. However, ECU reflash history is still in the ECU, and in the case of a significant warranty claim, the factory would probably examine every bit and byte in that ECU and discover the custom tune.
7. As recently as last year the local Cobalt owner who offered his car up for R&D to develop the 2.2 tune blew up his transmission and was able to get it replaced under warranty despite the dealership finding a custom tune in the ECU. They gave him a hard time about it but they still replaced the transmission.
neither trifecta nor I will lie to you guys, that's bad business, putting a grade 8 bolt where a grade 5 bolt used to be can void your warranty, but they still have to prove what you did caused damage to the part you are requesting to be replaced. No aftermarket part (including tuning) can void your warranty, it's in your warranty paperwork and manual.
That is the most well written thing I have seen on this site!!!
Last edited by Hugger1975; Feb 25, 2009 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Passing you
JK
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From: St. Louis
I would get it replaced under the lemon law, one consistant problem unable to be fixed. When I buy a car I expect everything to work, regardless of how expensive the car is. And you better believe if it was a corvette, GM would jump through hoops and service you while your car was being fixed, and you would leave with working cruise control. I hate how some dealerships treat us because we don't have expensive cars, I go to saturn of green bay and get treated like royalty compared to how other dealerships have treated me, they replaced my stereo first time without doubting me, and they replaced my clutch slave cylinder first time because it was squeaking.
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From: Wisconsin
Me neither. I have seen a few 09 demo vehicles for under $18 with <100 miles, though. Dealer told me they went to auction because a dealer in Florida went out of business. Who knows. Unlike the wind-damaged cars, these still had a paint warranty.
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From: Victorville, CA
Con's: I have to sell mine
Pro's: You can by mine now from me for $16,000 OBO
haha I wish I could keep mine, but I can't afford to make payments anymore and I need a truck since I just had to unexpectedly move to the desert.
Pro's: You can by mine now from me for $16,000 OBO
haha I wish I could keep mine, but I can't afford to make payments anymore and I need a truck since I just had to unexpectedly move to the desert.
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From: UNDER YOUR BED
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Joined: 09-16-05
Posts: 13,306
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From: UNDER YOUR BED
Jeeps are among the BEST off roading, beat the **** out of vehicles out there. Dodge rams are awsome trucks, handle lots of abuse and have a really good longevity. SRT vehicles are all amazing, and have pretty potent internals.
U have a lot to learn young one.
WOW, ur dumb as **** huh? Theres virtually NOTHING chrysler about my car. Mitsubishi gs engine platform, mitsu turbo, etc. Chrysler is separate from Dodge. Just because they own them doesnt mean they have all chrysler parts u jack ass.
Look at the MS3. Ford owns Mazda. U see any Ford parts in them? Last I checked it was pretty much all Mazda parts.
U have a lot to learn young one.
Look at the MS3. Ford owns Mazda. U see any Ford parts in them? Last I checked it was pretty much all Mazda parts.
Last edited by 1BADSS/SC; Feb 27, 2009 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Coloradio
Jeeps are among the BEST off roading, beat the **** out of vehicles out there. Dodge rams are awsome trucks, handle lots of abuse and have a really good longevity. SRT vehicles are all amazing, and have pretty potent internals.
U have a lot to learn young one.
WOW, ur dumb as **** huh? Theres virtually NOTHING chrysler about my car. Mitsubishi gs engine platform, mitsu turbo, etc. Chrysler is separate from Dodge. Just because they own them doesnt mean they have all chrysler parts u jack ass.
Look at the MS3. Ford owns Mazda. U see any Ford parts in them? Last I checked it was pretty much all Mazda parts.
U have a lot to learn young one.
WOW, ur dumb as **** huh? Theres virtually NOTHING chrysler about my car. Mitsubishi gs engine platform, mitsu turbo, etc. Chrysler is separate from Dodge. Just because they own them doesnt mean they have all chrysler parts u jack ass.
Look at the MS3. Ford owns Mazda. U see any Ford parts in them? Last I checked it was pretty much all Mazda parts.
LOL We are really sick of your ****
^ tell me that isn't the truth ?
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