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CMON BIG POWER!

 

Its kind of interesting to see so many guys acting like a Direct injection injector is the same as a regular injector via " just make it bigger " and it will be better method , because essentially that is wrong. You cannot just slap a larger DI on the current rail and expect some kind of increase in fuel delivery as a Direct injection system is not limited by the injector rather the RAIL pressure , so , unless you get someone to come up with maybe a Second pump on the exhaust cam to pump 2 cyl with its own rail and the intake cam to pump 2 cyl on separate rail you aren't going to see much of an upgrade other than the single point injector manifold solution you see now with cam lobes which Drive the High Pressure Fuel pump faster and harder resulting in MORE PRESSURE> Its pressure based.

People slapping on ZFRs on the stock engine with no supporting fueling mods expecting big numbers is comedy.

/end

 

I didn't even know that DI injectors could be separated from the rail. At least with our engines.. but yea, I would think it's two of the same when talking about the injector. I'm sure the rail will be different as well.

 

Is the limitation in some sense both? Obviously raising pressure increases flow, but how high can we safely raise pressure on the stock rail before risking damage to some other component? How high can the stock pump go before it gives out, or would something else fail first? Not sure if anyone has the answers already, I'm just throwing it out there.

Wouldn't some combo of larger injector + larger cam pump be ideal to increase fuel flow while maintaining fuel pressure in the near stock range? Not that such a combo does or ever will exist, of course. All assuming of course that the in-tank pump is still up to the task...otherwise replace that as well, but it sounds like that might be the last thing that needs upgrading on the stock fuel system.

 

2600 psi is as high as I feel comfortable going at this point for the sake of the pump, rail and injectors. The stock HPFP dead heads at 2900 psi.

 

The new Malibu 2.0 turbo pushes 3,050 psi on stock tune just logged it cpl days ago.

 

I am sure different HPFP, Rail and injectors vs the LNF. I wonder if they flow more than 122 lbs/hr like the LNFs injectors and rail can support.

 

Does the HPFP take a dump at 2900 psi because of the pressure or because it simply can't flow any more fuel than 2900 psi at the given injector size? So with that said, are there any injectors out there that flow more than the stock ones at the same pressure level? With what seems like new DI applications hitting the market every year one would think they exist. Then do they fit the stock harness, rail, etc. Possibly many modifications needed to make one fit. Same could be said for the HPFP upgrade that might be needed to maintain pressure at the higher flow rate. Does the Malibu hit 3050 psi to accommodate lower-flowing injectors or to better control injection timing by having a smaller IPW?

 

As far as I know the LNFs have the largest GDI injectors Bosch manufactures. At 2900 psi the pump cannot flow anymore fuel and at that point is being overdriven and will likely fail quickly.

 

Yep, this is correct.

 

from what I understand the LHU can use full E85...have a better fuel pump and such..I wonder what all would be need to tranfser that fueling setup to the lnf

 

Ryans LDK/LHU swap including fuel pump would not support E-85 on stock turbo at 6000 ft. His car makes a bit over 360 whp 415 wtrq. Car boosts 30 psig at 6000ft elevation which is only 26 psi equivalent at sea level due to 11 psi baro vs 14.6 psi at sea level. Even dropping the boost to 25 psi (22 psi) with no spike did not help it just kept dropping to 900 psi at the rail. I ended up having him switch to E-47. Car did better on the old LNF fuel pump and injectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

how good is the 5th injector from zzp term?

 

It seems to work well once you get it under control. If you have it start too soon into boost it floods the motor out really badly. I am doing Adrian's car (Colodude) with a ZFR and a 60 lb/hr 5th injector and full E-85. At first I had him set the controller (like a meth controller) to start at 5 psi and full at 15 psi and that did not work out well it was spraying so much fuel even with me taking out 25% fuel for the injector it was flooding out badly. Now he has it start at 15 psi and full by 30 psi and it is working out much better now. Still needs some adjusting but no more flooding out.

 

what activates the injector? Is there a wire on the ecm you tap to control that or do you use a seperate controller that is activated by bar(psi)?

 

It has a controller like a progressive meth system has. It comes on based on MAP and you can adjust the start and full point from 0-30 psi.

 

Fixed the boost leak AFAIK. Now I'm boosting 23 psi around 5.5k rpm but still spooling too slow. So now I'm guessing it's still the wastegate. It looks like I might need to shorten the rod cause it's already at the last thread. If that doesn't work I'm not too worried. I've been talking to James and I'm going to bring him out here and I'm going to buy his engine. We're going to do a swap, install cams and valvesprings. Fix my 25g issue as well and tune it for 91 octane DD, e85 DD and a aggressive e85/110 octane.

 

No it does not even need to be down to the last thread on the rod normally!!!! That turbo is going to have a lot of lag based on the size and old school design. Shortening the rod too much causes surge.

 

You dont need all those tunes. a gas tune and an E tune will be all you need. Everyone thinks you are going to make all this crazy power by adding stupid amounts of timing, changing fuel to excessively lean in the lower RPMS to help with spool and all that nonsense. Not necessary, make all your power with boost and leave the tune safe. 18-20 degrees and the turbo will do all the work. I am making more power than anyone on a hahn 20g and my car is stupid safe. Ethanol is obviously the biggest reason for that but you dont need to add timing with E because its already making more torque than gas does.

 

Work On The Head So You Can Rev To 7500-7800Rpms. I Guess You Missed Ccss3 Tune Thread?

 

IMHO leaning it out does not help spool much because it decreases load (it only helps if the car is pig rich to begin with). Pulling a little timing so the spark lights right close to when the exhaust valve opens helps dump a lot of hot dense exhaust gas right onto the turbine which helps spool. If you pull too much timing though it kills NA power and hurts spool. There is an art to it for sure.

 

Oh yeah, I am just saying its not necessary to have extra tunes for this or that. Get the thing dialed in for one fuel type or the other. Then you can run the appropriate tune for that fuel mix. Which is pretty much what fastgti was doing, it was based on the fuel mixes he was wanting to run. I just hear, "i want an aggressive tune", and then I remember when I was new to this. That is something people say that have no clue about building and properly tuning a car. Not talking about you fastgti.

Its not like when you ask a tuner to tune your car you are going to tell him to detune the heck out of it so its safe. They will most likely tune it for the best power and safety. The guy throwing timing at crap either has a lot of money to fix what he knows may break or he is an absolute noob.

 

There are known issues with the kinugawa billet wastegate actuators. Guys with 2nar springs are only getting 24psi sometimes and the spool is crazy slow. Dont think anyone has even figured out what the issue is or why it is doing this. I have a friend with an evo with this same turbo snd he had to do just what fastgti is talking about to get his to work properly

 

Unless they made the wg rod way too long to begin with this should not be an issue.

 

I know, but this is not normal lag lol. I'll have to do another boost leak test.

Well the thing is I like to use 91 for winter DD. E85 summer DD. And I want the aggressive file e85/110 for the 1/2 mile events I go to. I only run that there or if I'm going to run some supercars.

Yes, I'm buying James' built motor. He's going to be installing the cams and valvesprings for me as well as swapping motors. I replied on the first or second page of that thread, I'm well aware of it, thanks though.

I'll have a built motor when tuning for that aggressive file, it will be like insurance now. I can raise the boost as long as there if fuel for it. Hopefully the cams will give me enough for now. My DD tunes will be in the 400whp range maybe 450whp on e85. I'm sure with my aggressive mix I'll be maybe 550whp and I'll be happy.


Hopefully we can figure it all out when James gets here. I just need to see how much I need to pay and rent out a shop for James to work on to swap the motors etc. I'm going to help and It's going to be a fun journey LOL.