Anyone know when if they are going to offer stage kits for the LSJ?

 

See theres a problem with your logic. When my car breaks who am I bringing it to? Bill (the engineer) or my local dealership? Seeing the dealer is the one that is going to have to fix it Im unfortunately stuck in a position where I've got to follow their rules. I tried to fight it and say I would do the install myself, especially seeing I've been a mechanic for 6 years and have access to a full 4 bay garage. Unfortunately, the service manager maintained that the parts wouldn't be covered. To be quite honest I have to agree with him... I know my shop wouldn't warranty parts if a customer installed them themselves. Either way, the service manager ended up giving me a huge deal on the labor for the install plus the kit @ crate engine's price of $505 rather than the MSRP. I think I spent $560 total for the kit installed and flashed.

I like how you say "blame yourself" when you have no idea what the situation was or what you're talking about.

 

Thats exactly what Im saying. I didnt say there was anything wrong with the design of the sensors or the recal., I love the kit (when its working). Im saying the choice to have the installation involve those butt connectors was a lazy shortcut. That choice was NOT the techs, the kit comes with the connectors and the tech was just doing the install as instructed by GM.

I forget the code number, but the description is something along the lines of "erratic air intake tract reading" which is referring to the MAP sensor cold side CP portion of the intake tract. Same code I got last time before they replaced the lower MAP sensor.

As for my sig, here you go:

Corvette Album

Transvette pictures by rmryder88 - Photobucket

 

Say all you want but I don't even trust a dealer to fix my car. Do research before you blow that kind of money. Idk what u being a mechanic means....maybe that you should of installed it yourself?

 

The butt connectors work, the techs aren't doing it right. They can install the kit anyway they want. Some techs do solder the wires. Many techs just use the butt connectors, all depends on how much experience the tech has and how intelligent they are. Why don't you fix your splices yourself? Or tell the dealer to install it via solder.

 

So youre honestly saying that the butt connectors are just as good as soldering the wires? Thats all my point was, had the kit not come with those connectors, and instructed the techs to solder it from the beginning a lot of problems could have been avoided. For me, my issue has occurred during the winter both times. Im willing to bet it's from snow/water/salt/sleet getting into those connections and causing havoc with the readings.

Why don't I fix it myself? Ive considered it, but if you start messing around with your own car the dealer will not warranty it. So god forbid it wasn't the connections, but the sensor again, and I solder the wires what happens? I'll have to bring the car back in for a new sensor and they'll probably blame the issue on my soldering job.

Like I said over and over... I did tell the dealer to solder the connections last time, but they were convinced it was just a defective sensor. They replaced the sensor and wanted to reinstall it as recommended by the instructions. This time Im going to insist they solder the connections. If they don't, after they replace the sensor (again), Ill take the care home and solder it myself.

Again, I am very happy with the kit, when its working! My dyno gains were great, and its like a whole new car on the road.

 

Please allow me to interrupt the agruing that you two are amidst;

Let me stop you right there - as I see it, your major flaw in logic right there is you have completely eliminated the factor of human error.

No matter what hte job, no matter who does it there is always the factor of human error ~ or are you about to suggest that you have never screwed up anything??

Although I agree with you on a purely superficial level, there is no reason why the install cannot be done perfectly fine using crimp connectors.

In my opinion, to someone unskilled, they would be twice as likely to make a poor connection with solder, than a crimped connection - with this in mind, it makes total sense that GM would include crimp connectors.

Also if you look in the instructions, ther is nothing spelling out that the crimped connectors must be used... this would be a discretionary aspect of the stage kit installation.

Now stop right there - this is a screw up on the part of either the service manager, or hte service advisor, a mistake that apparently was common enough for GM to make a bulletin clearly spelling out that the kit did not need to be dealer installed.

LINK

I used to know where there was a similar announcement to this one that clearly spelt out that customers were alloud to do the install thamself complete with a downloadable PDF of the announcement, but at this time cannot find it.

See, this is another error on the part of either the technician or someone else at the dealership/service department level.

I understand your frustration, but refer back on the last post I made;
Do you know the error code?
Have you looked at the whole install?

Although I freely admit that one of the nicest things about buying this car is my not having to worry about doing anything on it myself, that hasn't stopped me from using my own judgment in deciding of the dealer is just going to screw me around... and one already has.

 

I couldn't see it happening.
I believe GM once stated that it's recommended to change the pistons if going above 300hp. The stage one kit already pretty much takes it there in terms of crank hp.
They'd never go to that extreme on a Cobalt.

 

#09-06-93-005: Information on Accessory Power Upgrade Kit or Performance Parts LNF Turbo Upgrade Kit - (Nov 24, 2009)


Subject: Information on Accessory Power Upgrade Kit or Performance Parts LNF Turbo Upgrade Kit


Models: 2008-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS

2007-2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP

2007-2009 Saturn SKY Red Line

All Equipped with Engine RPO LNF




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Accessory Power Upgrade Kit or Performance Parts LNF Turbo Upgrade Kit (P/N 19212670) has been designed and validated by GM Engineers to retain the warranty for the specified vehicle on which it is installed. It does not void the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

If the Accessory Power Upgrade Kit or Performance Parts LNF Turbo Upgrade Kit is sold and permanently installed by a GM Dealer or a GM-approved Accessory Distributor/Installer (ADI) prior to delivery of the vehicle, it will be covered under the applicable portion (Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, etc.) of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. In the event this accessory is installed after vehicle delivery, or it is replaced under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, it will be covered, parts and labor, for the balance of the applicable portion of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, but in no event less than 12 months/12,000 miles.

If this accessory is installed by anyone other than a GM Dealer or a GM-approved ADI, it will be covered, parts only, for the balance of the applicable portion of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, but in no event less than 12 months/12,000 miles. Workmanship will not be covered.

 

Haha no Im perfect! Jk. However, including the factor of human error is just kind of playing the "what if" game. What Im trying to get at is, assuming both methods are done correctly, soldering will absolutely provide a better, more permanent connection... that, I feel from how I've been taught, can't be denied.

Yeah, but now you're assuming that the tech doing the install is incompetent. While this very well may be the case, you're assuming worst case scenario. IMO, by dumbing the install down to the lowest common denominator's level GM is in turn lowering the quality of the install. If the tech can't do a simple soldering job they should either be A.) Restricted to only LOF's, tire jobs and brakes, or B.) Finding a new line of work. You shouldn't have the option of saying, well Im not really capable of doing that job, so I'm going to half ass it (whether you think butt connectors are half ass or not, they are a shortcut). If a tech can't do it then they should get another tech who can.

You're right, there isn't. However, a lot of techs are going to use them because they're there. What should be in the instructions is a directive instructing the tech to ONLY solder the connections. I mean I live in New England! Do you know how much **** gets all over my undercarriage. There is so much salt and moisture on my lower charge pipe its silly. If I did the install (which I may end up having to do) I would 1.) Get heat-shrink sleeves and slide one down each wire 2.) Solder each connection 3.) Slide the sleeve over the exposed wire and seal it. 3.) Apply electrical tape over the shrink sleeves. To me, that would create an adequate connection and create adequate weather proofing. Granted, I may be asking a lot, but I paid $300+ more (for LESS power mind you) because I wanted a kit that WOULDN'T screw up my car. So far I haven't gotten that. I mean my car bucks violently! Boost pressures are erratic, and I go into limp mode. Clearly something is going on. Now I have the headache of having to be without a car again while the dealer tries to figure out what's going on, meanwhile I need to be driving over an hour to the fire academy 5 days a week.

Well, clearly the bulletin wasn't enough. If GM is the one warrantying the product, they need to make it more clear to the dealers that are a representative of GM, instead of letting the dealers all provide conflicting information. Hell if thats the case I spent $100 more than I should have by having the dealer install the kit when I could have done it myself. That I think is GM's fault for not properly educating their dealers. If they are going to allow these places to sell their product they need to properly inform them about all aspects of it, not just how to take the customer's money.

And you'll have to refer to my last post where I said I don't currently have the code lol. I don't have the actual code, I wrote it down but misplaced it. The code description was something along the lines of "Air intake tract erractic reading". It is the SAME code I got the first time I had these symptoms just months ago and they replaced the lower CP MAP.

I agree. However, the way I see it... part of the reason a brand new car costs so much more is because it comes with a big warranty. Although I can do the work myself I see it as a waste of my time and more importantly my money. If I paid the extra money for a new car with a full warranty then I'm taking advantage of it. Not only that, but I also paid 100% more for this kit to maintain my warranty so you better believe it's gonna get used. If I had known the kit was going to cause issues with my car and I'd have to fix it myself, I would have spent $300 less and gone with Trifecta and made way more power.


NOW AGAIN don't get me wrong, like I've said before including to Bill, I love the kit WHEN IT WORKS. It offers great power gains and greatly improves the driving characteristics of the car for a fair price. I also appreciate all the help and information Bill has provided to the Cobalt community here. I'm not trying to be argumentative or bash anybody, I'm about as diehard a GM fan as you'll ever find. With that said, I'm just fed up with the fact that the whole reason I bought this kit is turning into a big joke.

 

ha-ha-ha!!

who are you kidding ~ yourself?



it seems ot me that you like to argue this.

That's not to say your frustration isn't justified...

but still...

What code(s) are you getting?

 

I wasn't trying to be argumentative initially. All I said was they should get the issues with GMS1 straightened out before they worry about trying to make more money with a S2. I think that's a fair statement. If there is a fairly widespread, recurring problem, it should be addressed first.

Again...I dont have the code but I gave you the description. I'm at the academy pretty much all day every day, but Ill try to swing by my shop tomorrow when I get out and scan it with the Tech II.

EDIT: I looked up my old thread from when I first brought the car in and had this same problem addressed. The codes I had at that time were:

P0236 - Turbocharger boost system performance
P0106 - MAP sensor circuit error

Like I said these are from the first time, but when I go to scan it tomorrow I guarantee it'll be at least the P0106 again, if not both. The first time this happened Onstar notified me that I had a CEL indicating "air intake tract problem" and when I scanned it with the Tech II I found the P0106 for the lower CP MAP. This time Onstar again notified me of the "air inake tract problem", I just haven't bothered to scan it myself yet.

 

well i know im not holding my breath for a gms2 but do i really want a gms1 hmm hmm lol

 

As you've also stated yourself and I agree with, there's a good chance any problems are not with the GM Performance Parts kit but instead due to the individual install, in which case the only thing that could be "addressed" is a clarification on installation instructions relating to proper installation (e.g. soldering the connectors).

It doesn't really matter that much anyways as the "Stage 2" was only supposed to be an intake that they couldn't get past internal certification testing from the sounds of it otherwise it might have been included with the current kit or shipped at the same time as an add-on type upgrade to the base S1 kit. And if GMPP does eventually come out with it (which I'm personally not holding my breath for at this point) it'll be hardware only and no other sensor/calibration changes so there should be no reason to hold it up due to potential S1 problems that probably aren't even due to the actual S1 kit. My guess is they gave up due to potential low demand and engineering costs to get a working, 50-state/CARB-certified solution out the door.

 

Throw me in on that

 

Will do

 

U r wrong 100% wrong gm put the lnf in the Buick regal. They tuned it down a lot but its still alive

 

You are wrong as well. Its not a lnf, its a LHU.

 

LoL you brought back a dead post to point out someone was wrong. Then you post wrong information.

 

hmm, apparently you didn't actually read my post...

here, let me quote highlight the pertinent parts of my post that you apparently missed;



LOL... my thoughts exactly.

 

Fail

 

Obvious troll is obvious.