Very cool thread. ZZP is awesome as usual.

I love the fact that it s direct bolt on and doesn't require cutting/fabricating or custom modifications to any components.

My car is just used for a daily driver, so I would want to keep the stock D/P, exhaust, charge piping, ect. Currently it only has an intake.

Any idea what kind of power this would produce on stock boost (15PSI) with a CAI and ZZP tune on 93 octane?? Just looking for an estimate.

 

I find the existing data amazing, especially though a stock turbo manifold. I have to wonder why other vendors think the stock manifold cannot support this kind of power (500+whp). There is a vendor over on solsticeforum working on BW EFR turbos as well, but not to this extent yet. See the post below:

Pontiac Solstice Forum - View Single Post - Borg Warner EFR 6258

To me, the fact that you guys are running 500+whp through the manifold says that it is not THAT much of a restriction. But what do you think? Is there really that much to be gained on this BW EFR set up by going to a tubular equal lenght or short runner turbo header? Personally i have no desire to buy parts that i do not need to meet my goal of making 400-425whp.

Also, with the advent of trifecta's injector window tinkering, the secondary fuel rail should not be necessary right, especially in the range that I'm seeking?

 

We have been making 450+ for a while on raised fuel pressure. The injection timing is another method of increasing the fuel system capacity, but not necessary for 400-425 by any means.

 

If you look at the BW website specs, there is a larger AR on the twin scroll version of this turbo. So you would probably not spool much/any faster, but you would get more flow up top because of the higher AR.

 

has anyone every just tried porting the stock manifold? not taking the twin scroll out just opening up the primaries

 

I bet it would crack or break

 

I owned a 1999 Ford Contour. The SVT version put out about 30hp more and all it pretty much had was an Extrude Honed manifold. Has anyone thought to try this? I know it's some old tech, but are there gains to be had?

 

2 posts up

 

I have one that I'm In the process of doing.

 

Well keep us posted on results! id also like to know how it turns out.

 

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

Thank you ZZP!!!

I have been watching the EFR for a few months now, just waiting for something like this. Please offer two levels though.

1) Solid 400-425HP for guys like me who just want a solid jump over the stock turbo for a daily driver but without having to rebuild the motor.

2) 500+ for the hardcore racers.

Keep this under $2k for the package FTW!

 

Ok, I have to step in here with a couple hard questions that after 12 pages and almost 300 posts no one has asked or even noticed.

First question...

This turbo is NOT an EFR turbo is it? I believe this turbo is an old design truck model, I could be wrong obviously I'm not a turbo expert. I sure don't think it's an EFR turbo though. So all you guys that are expecting this to be one of the "new" Borg Warner turbos might be surprised to realize it's not.

Second question(s), and an observation I don't think anyone has noticed or addressed...

The turbo in the pictures on the first page has welded flanges. It's obvious on the turbine outlet end, not so obvious on the inlet end but clearly looks like it was welded, ground smooth and bead blasted. If I'm seeing this correctly, then the questions that arise are... Who is doing this welding? Where are the flanges coming from? Is a donor K04 required to be able to cut the flanges off of to make one of these turbos? How is a welded turbine housing going to last without cracking? These housings are cast, welding to a casting is hard enough to make last, much less one that will be going through extreme heat cycling.

I'm not trying to slam any vendor, I'm making observations that seem obvious to me but haven't been mentioned. These two points are extremely important when thinking about spending a large chunk of money on a turbo kit. I know this "kit" is nowhere near ready for market, and I'm sure there will be changes along the way before it's actually released, but these are major factors that I believe need to be brought out and talked about.

This is a little like my post on Vince's thread about E85 and are there actually benefits to going higher than 50% anyway. (BTW, in that thread I posted links to 2 different studies that were very informative and answered many questions about E85 mixes.) I'm not trying to diminish Vince's accomplishment, I'm just trying to keep things in perspective when sometimes people get blinded by the excitement of what's being discovered. Both of these are valuable discoveries that can be built on to get us all further, but we can't be so overwhelmed by how "awesome", "incredible" and "amazing" a vendor is that we loose sight of the reality of what we're looking at. See, I'm the guy that can appreciate the smokin' hot chick, but also realize that she still has to grunt out a sticky, nasty smelling cr#p like all the rest of us has to! I'd like to run E85 and I'm planning on going bigger on a turbo, but I want to stand back, look at it with an open and rational mind and know EVERYTHING about it before I spend my money or risk my engine.

 

He states it's EFR in design here:

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/5629866-post25.html

Yes, this is an EFR based turbo. It has an unbelieveable list of features:

Ball bearing
Water cooled
Billet wheel
Extended tip
Stainless exhaust housing
Titanium/aluminide exhaust wheel
Built-in recirc bypass
Built-in wastegate

We took all of this and added:
Bolt-on to LNF manifold
LNF exit for factory O2 housing
Re-designed wastegate actuator bracket for use in this application
Adapter fitting for factory LNF oil inlet hose


ZZP Pic:



BW EFR:

 

John- I also stated that we are working on the exhaust housing casting. Maybe you should have contacted me with some questions before posting false assumptions in the thread. Please edit or delete your post.

Edit- I see that you did send a 2nd PM. I'm not sure why you wouldn't wait for a response before making assumptions.

 

What were my false assumptions?

 

The dyno sheet says it's a 254 turbo. I don't see a 254 anywhere in the EFR specs or catalog listings. There is an older design S254, 256 and 258 I believe that looks similar, I did not examine and compare all the pictures. I am NOT a turbo expert, as I've already said. "EFR based" is the same as EFR? So is it or is it not? All I'm looking for is accurate information, nothing else. I'm a customer looking to spend money. I will not spend it on anything that I'm not sure what it is I'm actually buying. I want to know about this kit as much or more than anyone. As I've said, I know it's in the early stages of development. Maybe it would have been better to keep this quiet until it was actually all ironed out and ready for market? I'm just saying everyone is jumping up and down with excitement and I'm just wondering about some of the details.

 

You assumed that is was not EFR. It is "EFR based" as I already stated- meaning that we used an EFR center section and compressor cover. Of course the exhaust housing is not EFR. It is custom made for this project.

You assumed that we will have to weld on the exhaust housings to build these, but we won't.

We covered this in the last 2 posts.

What I don't understand is why after I clearly stated that we built this with an EFR turbo and we talked about EFR in our PM exchange, you went on to state that you don't believe that it is an EFR turbo. Do you think I'm just lying?

 

I would also like to see two different levels to this. I would be much more willing to do high 300s to low 400s hp than 500+. Is there any chance of this happening?

 

hey matt, what model efr turbo is this based off of?

 

It says Z254, which should be apparent as our designation.

 

500+ is on E85 and cams. Gas setups on stock motors will be capable of ~450whp. This turbo spools like stock, so there is no reason to go smaller.

 

Hopefully this thing will be ready for my bonus in June

Everytime you post you draw me a little further from the BNR 2871.

No homo.

 

damn, with all this new **** i see goin on with these things, i almost wana smack myself for wasting money on all that HAHN ****. but now i have a 92 mustang, things are goin alright with it, so if i ever want another car, it will be one of these fully built, all ZZP parts.

 

I'm wondering 2 things....how much? and can guys who are stock bolt this in with a tune only?

 

want this!!