ZZP EFR Turbo results
Senior Member
Joined: 08-06-08
Posts: 3,405
Likes: 7
From: Federal Way
I dont see why we couldnt make 400 without cams...aint people making close to 400 on the 20g and about 400+ on E without cams??? Same goes for the 5557??
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
We already tested this on a 2.0 last year. I took it to 540whp. Yes, it was on E85, but the airflow, boost, and potential gains apply the same. This community needs to get out of the habit of "I know it made 481.2 with a, b, c, d, e, and f, so what if build something similar but get rid of d and replace f with g? Will it then make 495.7?" It doesn't work like that and we all know it. People have different intercoolers, live in different climates and run different fuels. Some engines are in great condition while others are tired. Some run cool and get treated well while others run hot and get beat on unreasonably. Some people have boost leaks, bad injector seals, old spark plugs, home-made intakes, meth kits spraying washer fluid, or any one or more of fifty different variables that can significantly alter the horsepower numbers. The bottom line is that we know that the BNR is a nice gain over the stock turbo. 50 additional whp is the general consensus. We also know that the ZFR can top the BNR by another 50 without being maxed yet. If someone wants a turbo worth gains of 125whp+ over their stock turbo, and they want it to bolt on to their stock manifold and spool like a K04, then the ZFR is the only choice. We don't need to test 20 different combinations to know this. We can simply apply common sense at this point.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-09-09
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
On pump without the cam with the lobe it might be a little difficult, youll atleast need springs and retainers.
We already tested this on a 2.0 last year. I took it to 540whp. Yes, it was on E85, but the airflow, boost, and potential gains apply the same. This community needs to get out of the habit of "I know it made 481.2 with a, b, c, d, e, and f, so what if build something similar but get rid of d and replace f with g? Will it then make 495.7?" It doesn't work like that and we all know it. People have different intercoolers, live in different climates and run different fuels. Some engines are in great condition while others are tired. Some run cool and get treated well while others run hot and get beat on unreasonably. Some people have boost leaks, bad injector seals, old spark plugs, home-made intakes, meth kits spraying washer fluid, or any one or more of fifty different variables that can significantly alter the horsepower numbers. The bottom line is that we know that the BNR is a nice gain over the stock turbo. 50 additional whp is the general consensus. We also know that the ZFR can top the BNR by another 50 without being maxed yet. If someone wants a turbo worth gains of 125whp+ over their stock turbo, and they want it to bolt on to their stock manifold and spool like a K04, then the ZFR is the only choice. We don't need to test 20 different combinations to know this. We can simply apply common sense at this point.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 06-16-09
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 0
From: Sherrodsville, OH
no i forgot to add i have a zzp stage 4+
We already tested this on a 2.0 last year. I took it to 540whp. Yes, it was on E85, but the airflow, boost, and potential gains apply the same. This community needs to get out of the habit of "I know it made 481.2 with a, b, c, d, e, and f, so what if build something similar but get rid of d and replace f with g? Will it then make 495.7?" It doesn't work like that and we all know it. People have different intercoolers, live in different climates and run different fuels. Some engines are in great condition while others are tired. Some run cool and get treated well while others run hot and get beat on unreasonably. Some people have boost leaks, bad injector seals, old spark plugs, home-made intakes, meth kits spraying washer fluid, or any one or more of fifty different variables that can significantly alter the horsepower numbers. The bottom line is that we know that the BNR is a nice gain over the stock turbo. 50 additional whp is the general consensus. We also know that the ZFR can top the BNR by another 50 without being maxed yet. If someone wants a turbo worth gains of 125whp+ over their stock turbo, and they want it to bolt on to their stock manifold and spool like a K04, then the ZFR is the only choice. We don't need to test 20 different combinations to know this. We can simply apply common sense at this point.
People want to see gasoline. I dont expect much more then 420-430 on gasoline with the efr. Its a small turbo.. ( 6758 wise) Of course with more boost and ethanol you can obtain 540, but youd need the cams and etc. So not stock.. ( im talking stock cams, stock fueling) Its not realistic in a stock car. Catch my drift. Being realistic, (SAFE AND RELIABLE BOOST) 25-26 LBS FOR A DAILY. This is what people want to see. I understand that the turbo can produce numbers. Ive tued a few 6758s and have proven to be in the lower - mid 400s on pump with around 25ISH lbs on gas.
But comparing a car that is built with ethanol to a stock car with pump gas is obviously different. The flow of air and etc will be different. Lbs of boost and timing will react differently within the two setups.. So 26lbs on e47 vs 26lbs on gas has a wide variety of differences.
From borg warner:
BW EFR 6758 turbo. (275-450 HP Rating)
"The Borg Warner EFR 6758 turbo is the 3nd size (#3 of 7) turbocharger in the high performance EFR series. The 6758 is a versatile turbocharger with large map width for outstanding power potential even at high boost and does it in a small package. Uses the same compact compressor housing found on it's younger brother but with a larger 53.9mm inducer, 67mm exducer compressor wheel to support a remarkable 49lb/min max flow rate & up to 450 HP. Very quick spool makes it the perfect choice for small engines in single turbo configuration or lager engines in twin form for up to 900 HP. Neck napping fast spool/response, compact & impressive HP yield thanks to it's FMW compressor wheel, Gamma-Ti turbine wheel & dual row ball bearings. This is also an excellent turbocharger for rally, drift, road racing, auto X, street applications & even drag.
BorgWarner EFR (Engineered For Racing) Series turbos are purpose built units for the performance market & meet the needs of the next generation turbo consumer. Revolutionary from the ground up, each incorporates a long list of features never before seen in a single package. All old technology has been thrown away completely & the result is a whole new breed of turbo, packed full of cutting edge advancements. Great emphases has been put towards a more compact design, making each EFR the ideal choice for applications with limited space available. Outstanding ease of installation & budget friendly (thanks to their 'total package' platform) every EFR eliminates the need to purchase/fabricate/install a separate blow of valve & related flanges/tubing due to their already integrated BOV. The internally wastegated units present another large advantage in savings & install simplicity by eliminating the need for an external wastegate(s), related fab work & otherwise cumbersome materials.
Compressor Features
* Low inertia, Forged Billet Aluminum Compressor Wheel w/ Extended Tip Technology (ETT) provides the ultimate in response & extreme durability in high pressure applications.
* Speed sensor mounting provisions
* Built In BOV Included (All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV)
* Boost Control Solenoid Included
Compressor Specs
* Compressor Wheel Inducer: 53.9mm
* Compressor Wheel Exducer (OD): 67mm
* Max Flow Rate: 49 lb/min
* Housing: 2.5" inlet, 2.0" hose coupler outlet.
But comparing a car that is built with ethanol to a stock car with pump gas is obviously different. The flow of air and etc will be different. Lbs of boost and timing will react differently within the two setups.. So 26lbs on e47 vs 26lbs on gas has a wide variety of differences.
From borg warner:
BW EFR 6758 turbo. (275-450 HP Rating)
"The Borg Warner EFR 6758 turbo is the 3nd size (#3 of 7) turbocharger in the high performance EFR series. The 6758 is a versatile turbocharger with large map width for outstanding power potential even at high boost and does it in a small package. Uses the same compact compressor housing found on it's younger brother but with a larger 53.9mm inducer, 67mm exducer compressor wheel to support a remarkable 49lb/min max flow rate & up to 450 HP. Very quick spool makes it the perfect choice for small engines in single turbo configuration or lager engines in twin form for up to 900 HP. Neck napping fast spool/response, compact & impressive HP yield thanks to it's FMW compressor wheel, Gamma-Ti turbine wheel & dual row ball bearings. This is also an excellent turbocharger for rally, drift, road racing, auto X, street applications & even drag.
BorgWarner EFR (Engineered For Racing) Series turbos are purpose built units for the performance market & meet the needs of the next generation turbo consumer. Revolutionary from the ground up, each incorporates a long list of features never before seen in a single package. All old technology has been thrown away completely & the result is a whole new breed of turbo, packed full of cutting edge advancements. Great emphases has been put towards a more compact design, making each EFR the ideal choice for applications with limited space available. Outstanding ease of installation & budget friendly (thanks to their 'total package' platform) every EFR eliminates the need to purchase/fabricate/install a separate blow of valve & related flanges/tubing due to their already integrated BOV. The internally wastegated units present another large advantage in savings & install simplicity by eliminating the need for an external wastegate(s), related fab work & otherwise cumbersome materials.
Compressor Features
* Low inertia, Forged Billet Aluminum Compressor Wheel w/ Extended Tip Technology (ETT) provides the ultimate in response & extreme durability in high pressure applications.
* Speed sensor mounting provisions
* Built In BOV Included (All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV)
* Boost Control Solenoid Included
Compressor Specs
* Compressor Wheel Inducer: 53.9mm
* Compressor Wheel Exducer (OD): 67mm
* Max Flow Rate: 49 lb/min
* Housing: 2.5" inlet, 2.0" hose coupler outlet.
We already tested this on a 2.0 last year. I took it to 540whp. Yes, it was on E85, but the airflow, boost, and potential gains apply the same. This community needs to get out of the habit of "I know it made 481.2 with a, b, c, d, e, and f, so what if build something similar but get rid of d and replace f with g? Will it then make 495.7?" It doesn't work like that and we all know it. People have different intercoolers, live in different climates and run different fuels. Some engines are in great condition while others are tired. Some run cool and get treated well while others run hot and get beat on unreasonably. Some people have boost leaks, bad injector seals, old spark plugs, home-made intakes, meth kits spraying washer fluid, or any one or more of fifty different variables that can significantly alter the horsepower numbers. The bottom line is that we know that the BNR is a nice gain over the stock turbo. 50 additional whp is the general consensus. We also know that the ZFR can top the BNR by another 50 without being maxed yet. If someone wants a turbo worth gains of 125whp+ over their stock turbo, and they want it to bolt on to their stock manifold and spool like a K04, then the ZFR is the only choice. We don't need to test 20 different combinations to know this. We can simply apply common sense at this point.
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
lol, it's funny how people like to say that running E85 and swapping cams is not realistic. This thread is about a customer's car, not a ZZP car. Think about it.
Now you say that we shouldn't compare an e85 car with s1 cams to a gas car without, but this thread has a dyno sheet showing 2 different turbos on the same setup running e85 and s1 cams on both. Are you saying that the other turbo would make more power than the zfr if we ran them both on gas or with stock cams?
Then you go on to say that you have tuned efrs and made mid to lower 400s on gas, which is what we said they would do, so why are you asking us to test just to back up the numbers that we stated and you agree to already?
The real reason that you want us test this with a bunch of stock parts is because you want our numbers to be lower. I'm sorry that our customers are so unrealistic that they add a bunch of other mods in order to make unrealistic horsepower numbers. Maybe we should go in search of customers that don't like to mod.
Now you say that we shouldn't compare an e85 car with s1 cams to a gas car without, but this thread has a dyno sheet showing 2 different turbos on the same setup running e85 and s1 cams on both. Are you saying that the other turbo would make more power than the zfr if we ran them both on gas or with stock cams?
Then you go on to say that you have tuned efrs and made mid to lower 400s on gas, which is what we said they would do, so why are you asking us to test just to back up the numbers that we stated and you agree to already?
The real reason that you want us test this with a bunch of stock parts is because you want our numbers to be lower. I'm sorry that our customers are so unrealistic that they add a bunch of other mods in order to make unrealistic horsepower numbers. Maybe we should go in search of customers that don't like to mod.
Matt ( let me get me get my etch a sketch for you).. You may be able to understand this since you apparently dont see what im saying.....
If you understand anything about anything you can easily see my point. ( your dynoing on cars that are of course gonna show way more then what the actual turbo will push out on gasoline) which is why i said get a graph with a car on gasoline pump gas and no engine modifications... (this is realistic because not everyone builds there cars or goes ethanol) Do you see my point now?
2.1, cams, ethanol and all the other crap VS a stock engine lnf with basic bolt ons with the efr and gasoline
the numbers Chase has will not happen with a pump gasoline stock car. So the numbers he has and you said are unrealistic for someone to achive on gasoline and stock engine.
DID i ever say it was on a lnf? No lsj. I helped a 6758 lnf but thats not the point..
Who wants this turbo mainly? People with stock cars with no cams, with no e, just basic bolt ons. ( i can give a care less about how low or high your numbers are .. The point is to show the performance of the turbo on a stock gasoline car.
Why should you show these numbers to people?
Because its a smart thing to do if you want to sell somthing and actually give correct info.. So they dont get pissy when they dont reach the said number... ( you have never given a correct dynograph of what a standard/ stock bolted tc will do) Just your shop car and chases dyno (which is still great)...
I never said on completely stock car. I said stock engine ( no cams, no porting no valve springs, and no bottom end build.) Not everyone on this site is rich.
If you understand anything about anything you can easily see my point. ( your dynoing on cars that are of course gonna show way more then what the actual turbo will push out on gasoline) which is why i said get a graph with a car on gasoline pump gas and no engine modifications... (this is realistic because not everyone builds there cars or goes ethanol) Do you see my point now?
2.1, cams, ethanol and all the other crap VS a stock engine lnf with basic bolt ons with the efr and gasoline
the numbers Chase has will not happen with a pump gasoline stock car. So the numbers he has and you said are unrealistic for someone to achive on gasoline and stock engine.
DID i ever say it was on a lnf? No lsj. I helped a 6758 lnf but thats not the point..
Who wants this turbo mainly? People with stock cars with no cams, with no e, just basic bolt ons. ( i can give a care less about how low or high your numbers are .. The point is to show the performance of the turbo on a stock gasoline car.
Why should you show these numbers to people?
Because its a smart thing to do if you want to sell somthing and actually give correct info.. So they dont get pissy when they dont reach the said number... ( you have never given a correct dynograph of what a standard/ stock bolted tc will do) Just your shop car and chases dyno (which is still great)...
I never said on completely stock car. I said stock engine ( no cams, no porting no valve springs, and no bottom end build.) Not everyone on this site is rich.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 06-16-09
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 0
From: Sherrodsville, OH
lol, it's funny how people like to say that running E85 and swapping cams is not realistic. This thread is about a customer's car, not a ZZP car. Think about it.
Now you say that we shouldn't compare an e85 car with s1 cams to a gas car without, but this thread has a dyno sheet showing 2 different turbos on the same setup running e85 and s1 cams on both. Are you saying that the other turbo would make more power than the zfr if we ran them both on gas or with stock cams?
Then you go on to say that you have tuned efrs and made mid to lower 400s on gas, which is what we said they would do, so why are you asking us to test just to back up the numbers that we stated and you agree to already?
The real reason that you want us test this with a bunch of stock parts is because you want our numbers to be lower. I'm sorry that our customers are so unrealistic that they add a bunch of other mods in order to make unrealistic horsepower numbers. Maybe we should go in search of customers that don't like to mod.
Now you say that we shouldn't compare an e85 car with s1 cams to a gas car without, but this thread has a dyno sheet showing 2 different turbos on the same setup running e85 and s1 cams on both. Are you saying that the other turbo would make more power than the zfr if we ran them both on gas or with stock cams?
Then you go on to say that you have tuned efrs and made mid to lower 400s on gas, which is what we said they would do, so why are you asking us to test just to back up the numbers that we stated and you agree to already?
The real reason that you want us test this with a bunch of stock parts is because you want our numbers to be lower. I'm sorry that our customers are so unrealistic that they add a bunch of other mods in order to make unrealistic horsepower numbers. Maybe we should go in search of customers that don't like to mod.
thank you, im really happy with it.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-13-09
Posts: 2,951
Likes: 0
From: Davie, Fl
Once this turbo gets released we will see these numbers come out. I am full bolt ons w/e60. With this turbo and e47 or e30 @23-24 psi I am expecting to hit ~430whp. If I was on 93 I would expect to make about ~410whp keeping timing within reason.
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Thanks for quoting that Chase. James just doesn't get it. James- if you want to discuss a different combination of parts, then start your own thread. This is not a zzp thread. It was not started by zzp. It was started by a customer who wanted to make a post about his setup, which according to you is nothing like what real customers want. Sorry, but money buys parts, and a lot of people like to spend a lot. People who are not willing to spring for cams because they cost too much would be more likely to stick with the stock turbo or opt for a cheaper turbo upgrade.
Either way, maybe our next zfr buyer will have a very lightly modded car so that you can get the numbers you are looking for.
Either way, maybe our next zfr buyer will have a very lightly modded car so that you can get the numbers you are looking for.