Why don't just add a new pump, new fuel lines(bigger) and bigger injectors, upgrading the whole fuel system? wouldn't that be more reliable in the long run?

 

At the moment there aren't any after market High Pressure fuel injectors available for the LNF so we are stuck with the techniques discussed here for the time being.

 

I have this.



60# Siemens High Impedance Low Profile injectors.

It was used on first twincharged LSJ and managed with an SMT-6.

 

That would work a whole lot better then just one...... And in fact if someone did go this way they'd prob never have a fueling issue.. what kind of stately does it use... The only issue i see with that is the atomization of the fuel since it isnt at a angle the fuel will come together sort of like a dirty Injector

 

that's what I'm doing....the injectors on each runner of my intake manifold will be angled around 45 degrees towards the each cylinder...........to avoid any pooling of fuel on each runner. Better atomization

Plus of course having an injector on each cylinder will ensure a better and equal fuel supply for each cylinder.

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l...lb-min-269240/


But I guess only having 1 injector is fine....since Matt and snakescythe (?).......are using this "5th injector kit"....without any issues.


good luck cmiller.....definitely let us know your experience!!!

 

You sir are a smart man lol....[/B]

 

^^^^^^^holy sig change....lol

 

It would "work a whole lot better?" I'm sure you have a lot of experience to back this up.

I have run several different setups on my car. We have posted about them on here as well. Actually, the single injector works better than 4. The reason is that either supports a lot more HP than you can make without, but the single injector comes in smoother. It also eliminates the need for specific injection timing. Depending on the frequency you run the drivers at, running port injection near the cylinder can cause inconsistent fueling from cycle to cycle of the engine. High end fuel controllers that sync with the crank posisiton to avoid this issue cost a lot more money than our fuel controller. Next you have the cost of 4 injectors vs. 1 injector. Then consider the mods to the intake manifold which runs several hundred dollars for a 4 injector system. Then there is the labor involved to remove the intake manifold to modify it or replace it.

With our 5th injector kit, you spend a lot less money and it can be installed quickly and easily without even needing to remove the intake.

...and it works great...
ZZP EFR Cobalt 60-125 - YouTube

ZZP LNF Cobalt Runs 11.01 at 136.8 - YouTube

 

Matt, since you both tried the single....as well as the port injection (4 injectors on each runner).........

what do you mean by "smoother"?

since the controller in this "5th injector kit"...is boost referenced...........will this injector just turns ON and OFF during a certain boost? or will it inject fuel gradually as boost goes up?

thanks!

 

Yes, it comes in gradually. You can set the starting boost point and the boost where it hits 100% duty cycle.

By smoother, I was just refering to a setup with 4 injectors sized to flow a lot more than our single 60. If you ran 4 very small injectors, it could be brought in smooth without much hassle.

 

oh basically, its the fuel injector kit version of a meth nozzle kit?

fuel injector is of course a more accurate compared the meth nozzle.....

 

for 4 injectors and the advanced controller, we are talking big money. zzp does it yet again. affordable and it works

 

^^^ now this supports why I can't stand you..your attitude is like a 6 year old who just lost there favorite toy..... Calm your Ass down. Because a single won't be better then a four.. Have you tested the flow of fuel for each intake runner? Have you tested egts to verify each cylinder is getting the correct amount of fuel. I have tuned many cars using secondary injection. So your assuption is honestly bullshit. Putting a single injector into the manifold might give you more fuel. but to which cylinder gets more? Because If you haven't tested tour system out it can be false, it can be unreliable and ****. So I'm sorry to tell yuh, but id rather not blow a engine because of some faulty secondary injection system. And showing a vid of your car going down the track doesn't mean bull. Because we are talking about the correct atomization of fuel and to each cylinder. Not how fast your car can go.




Having one injector in the middle of the mani does not mean fueling for each cylinder will be the same


Having a secondary that runs four with injectors that have been flow tested and are good to go , then that would mean fueling to each cylinder will be closer then runnin one injector. Since the runners will have differwnt flow depending on each cylinder.

You can say what you want... Facts are facts.....

 

Now since it is cheap that means it works correctly? Hmmmmm

 

Someone should do a test with a Meth nozzle running straight blue windshield washer fluid right where this fifth injector goes to see which of the cyls gets more blue vs. the others. I think James brings up a very interesting question regarding individual cyls and how much fuel they are getting. Hell, you could take the IM off and do a test on a piece of white paper. See which runner poors more if any....

You could take off the manny, put a nozzle in the spot, place each runner over a cup. Pour one gallon of Meth in a reservoir and turn it on then measure which cup is more full...

 

ok gotcha!

I originally bought 4 x 70 lb injectors for my port manifold injection.

But after careful thinking about my goals and set-up............I returned the 70 lb injectors......since they'll be too much


.....and I replaced them with 45 lb injectors instead.....to make fuel injection smoother as well.

 

It's a lot like a tbi setup, wherein the fuel is not equally distributed to all the cylinders. This means that the air/fuel mixture injected differs for each cylinder
It can cool the manifold much faster causing the fuel to puddle and condense in the manifold. The possibility of condensation is much higher since the fuel travels mix longer to the combustion chamber
It is a wet system and the mixture of fuel is still based per cylinder
So the equal amount of fuel will never happen...... Wash cylinder will differ on fuel and air

 

lol, did you even understand what I said about inconsistent fueling between cycles? I'm guessing not since you are claiming that using 4 injectors automatically makes the fueling more accurate.

btw, we tested these systems for over a year. Do you really think we didn't consider the situations that you come up with off the top of your head? Yes, we test egts, as well as individual knock thresholds. I use an oscilloscope to map out the injection timing of the DI injectors as well as hpfp solenoid timing and compare to cam timing, spark lead, etc. We monitor fuel pressure before and after the hpfp and compile pages of data over hundreds of dyno pulls before we decide that a product like this makes the most sense to sell in our market.

Here's a question for you- have you tested the airflow to each individual cylinder on your LNF? If not, how would you know how to scale each injector that you add to the intake runners?

lol, one could ask the same about your tunes.

 

I hope you are not serious. It's the high airflow that distributes the fuel evenly. Without it, this wouldn't work at all.

 

I was serious but didn't think of that. I guess the washer fluid test while it is mounted would work better then?

 

Here's a question for the doubters- Are you going to get in every meth thread and talk about how the fuel doesn't distribute evenly? I'm thinking probably not.

 

Im not doubting, im just curious. Can you honestly say you blame me? This is unorthodox. Expect this kind of repertoire.

 

i dont get why james is such a zzp hater. they are one of the leaders in r&d for our platform. they produce good numbers.

 

unorthodox? buick grand national's use a 7th injector all the time

 

I understand. I was mainly talking about James who will claim whatever he wants if it can discredit ZZP somehow.