theres no reason for them to do it.. at the end of the day they are in the market doing what they love but they need to turn a profit and spending countless time and money into sometihng that wont turn a profit or that 1 person buys isnt worth the hassle or effort. 90% of cobalt owners wont ever get past the 450whp range. they want the best for free it seems.

so with that said... i think its the best route but like it was stated above...costs money and it needs to be done 100% correctly. using addtional injectors in a di car is quite a bit more challenging then how the dsm cars are.

 

^^: you hit it right on the head.... I'm just curious to see how the flow is and if its a safe mixture to each cylinder..




Zzp is a great vendor hands down, and I will tell people to purchase they're products.. great products, great materials, and ect. I'm just conferees about above. That's it.

 

yup, they gotta do what they gotta do.

ZZP know their business.....and I guess, really have to cater for the masses

 

you seem to post that you agree that zzp is a great vendor, and recommend their products.



so why do you and Matt always fight on the forums??? lol

 

you do and you dont.... they can do custom stuff just like my shop can BUT again its going to cost money and until someone puts it on the table why should anyone do it? this totally has nothing to do with this thread but you know how many phone calls i get a week after seeing my car in modified and people wanting every single thing thats done? not one has pulled the trigger. because people are cheap and dont want to pay for things.

i have this theory on all the new gen car owners and what not lol.. its pretty funny. doesnt apply to everyone that owns that car but applys to a lot of them

 

Matt and I had bad words back in the day and he brought my personal life up so I see him as a crappy person because in all honesty it was wrongful, disrespectful, and dishonest.. so that's my beef with him. Not zzp as a whole.

 

Family Guy - Peter's Cowboy Song - YouTube

 

WOW! disaster area here as usual when someone asks about ZZP products.

What I can say about all of it is this:

Saturn Motorsports attempted a 5th injector setup on their turbo kits for the Ions forever ago. And from personal experience, It Fails. As CCSS3 states, the center cylinders see more fuel than the outside 2 do. It causes a lean condition.

Now what I see ZZP doing here is adding a 60lb/hr injector because it gives the greatest possibility that the outside cylinders will receive enough fuel, not the same amount of fuel across the cylinders.

Why is the 60 easier to tune? because in order for you to be equal to the same amount of fuel from 4 injectors, they would need to be 15lb/hr injectors. Which are tiny. Running 4 60lb/hr injectors would be 240lb/hr of fueling capability.

If you want balanced fueling, you need to balance the injectors.

OR, big or here, you all collectively begin sending emails, phone calls, etc to the companies that make injectors and pester them until you get someone to actually develop injectors for you. The reason they arent is because not enough people are asking for them. There are enough cars out there now with DI that someone should be doing something. Cuz finding ways "around" the problem will never get the result that you all need. Hell if you are going to run regular injectors, sell the LNF and get an LSJ, skip all the issues lol...

l8r,
PD

 

i agree withvirtually everything here except the last statement BUT if you want to make big power the lsj is the way to go... its been done time and time again.

like he said theres not enough interested and like i said people are too damn cheap. larger impedence injectors, a strong cam pump, along with the beefy stock or aftermarket rail more then likely would be an ideal setup and deliver equal fueing...

 

You have to look at this car's demographic, which I'm sure you have. This car was made with the 18-25 yr old range in mind. That's not the demographic that has a lot of money. The Cobalt name also sticks you in a demographic that encompasses mostly young girls. If you want larger profits, you have to go after bigger fish. Don't act surprised when it's hard to squeeze $1500 out of a Cobalt owner to get into the 10s when they can squat happily in the 12s for next to nothing.

 

Oh I agree lol.... they remind me speed 3 owners but I honestly think speed 3 owners are worse... we had one guy come into the shop and he was pissed when I told him the only coilovers I could get him were kw variant 2s for 1400.....

 

Mazda people. HA!!

 

Yeah lol... they make me lol...... if u wanna continue the bs session pm me here or gmsc. Don't wanna spam up the thread anymore

 

I know, the interest should be there though.

MS3
Optima
LNF
Buick Regal
Cruze
Axiom

and many many more have gone DI. This isnt a cobalt issue its a multiplatform issue. With the push from everyone, then someone will design something. Just takes enough aggressive campaigning. You guys are absolutely right about the people being cheap and not interested in more expensive parts. Its not about those people though. Its about us, the ones that want to go well above the average owner. We have to push and we have to pay, but we will get it their because its what we are after.

Im not wanting to knock ZZP at all in this. They know what is going to be profitable and work for most enthusiasts. Its just not working for us that want more and have no problem paying for it.

l8r,
PD

 

Look at your list, though. Are you going to tell me that some Mazda guys (can't say enough bad stuff about them,) a couple of Korean business men, some chicks, your grandmother, some more chicks, and about 3 other people are going to net you a profit on performance parts? Puhlease.

 

exactly.... though.... you need to look at what you listed. buick regal gs and optima..... probablly wont be a big aftermarket period, cruze....cheaper and less willing to mod then cobalt owners, ms3.... like cobalt owners on a even bigger scale.... want to mod with best for cheapest price but not many go big turbo or have need for more fueling(however they have high pressure pump upgrades), lnf.... really the only hope of anything happening.

 

Who would have thought a drippy-dick drawn on a cardboard box would yield 6 pages? Only on CSS.net!!!

 

I know, the list is simply to show that DI is expanding. I remember 10 years ago when the Isuzu Axiom was released. People kept saying it would never take hold. Several years later its getting there. It will get across to everyone though. Just takes time, more platforms, more vendors, more parts. Ive met a few MS3 owners and they typically worry about things far from performance lol. I know what you all are saying though.

l8r,
PD

 

You are right to say that there is nothing wrong with asking questions, but when someone starts out by saying that something else works much better, when that other thing doesn't actually even exist other than custom one-off experimental setups here and there, then there is a problem with his approach.

 

If you run 4 extra injectors with an advanced fuel control system such as the AEM FIC (fuel ignition controller), then you will have more control and the potential to support more horsepower than our kit. Look to spend $1500+ to get into a setup like that though, when you include all of the necessary hardware, components, and modifications.

 

I agree and we all know that is your shop's style. We always look for more affordable alternatives that are easier to install and use. You guys take the custom approach, which is fine, but obviously far more costly.

 

That's strange that you think it went down that way. I wasn't even part of that conversation. What actually happened was that you told Ryan that if you had more money that you would build a car to beat his. Then he poked fun at you saying that you need to make more money then and something about "skills to pay the bills." Now you seem to think that was me.

 

We went through this many times.. you and Ryan were **** talking. So dont go back on what was proven. I did say that going with four injectors would be better because it is... Did I say someone's is better then yours, or did I say anything bad about yours? No I asked a simple question which you have still yet to answer. I do have skill to make money, and I do that on a daily basis. I work with shops around here for tuning, I also work with dealerships on there more difficult work since im known for my diagnostic skill and ect..

 

and proving. 4 works better then one has been proven .... Cost wise maybe not, but how it works yes. If done correctly.

 

lets kiss and make up ladies, or handle it through pms.