brfs vs return style
I don't think the two kits should be compared apples to apples. One uses stock components and the other use's aftermarket parts. The BRFS is a nice kit for what it does, but it lacks for a higher hp build imho. If you run dual pumps you will have a hard time using the brfs because of the stock regulator, it doesn't have enough bypass flow for the dual pumps under most conditions. Other area's it lacks, no fuel pressure gauge and it's not as easy to adjust pressure as a aftermarket regulator.
I don't think the two kits should be compared apples to apples. One uses stock components and the other use's aftermarket parts. The BRFS is a nice kit for what it does, but it lacks for a higher hp build imho. If you run dual pumps you will have a hard time using the brfs because of the stock regulator, it doesn't have enough bypass flow for the dual pumps under most conditions. Other area's it lacks, no fuel pressure gauge and it's not as easy to adjust pressure as a aftermarket regulator.
Customer installed it wrong. I told him how to trouble shoot and he replied 'why should I do that, what will it prove'. Eventually I got him to do it anyway and we discovered he had done the install wrong. Our kit was fine.
What do you mean by "Higher in flow"? Injectors or a different fuel system?
From my observations of this debate over the past fews years I have come to the following conclusions.
1. ZZP used to say that return style systems are useless but now offer them as an option on their site. They even offer the same Regulator as OTTP. Actually, right now, the site does not allow you buy the kit without a Fuel Lab regulator...
2. ZZP BRFPS (without the return setup) is good if you need just a little bit more fuel. Most people who need a lot more fuel and try to adjust the FP ending up breaking the adjustment screw/regulator. When they post for help with they end up getting scolded by ZZP for doing something they were not supposed to do. But ZZP always comes through to help them out. But first they make you look like an idiot! lol
3. I have not heard of anyone running a OTTP return style system ever complain about not having enough fuel. They can get it when they need it and not have to worry about breaking something in the kit.
4. Not to name drop but the person who made the most power with a TVS and E85 (and didn't blow his engine) was running the system from OTTP.
5. ZZP has gotten good results with their BRPFS buy turning up the FP when needed. IIRC, the first LSJ 2.3L stroker engine they built was running a M62, 60#, E85 and their BRFPS with the FP turned up to ~70psi. The made like 360whp with that setup. Their 2.4L LSJ stoker made over 400whp on the same setup but with 80# injectors.
6. As a "Return after the fuel rail option" Both kits are priced the same.
If I misspoke somewhere, please feel free to correct me.
From my observations of this debate over the past fews years I have come to the following conclusions.
1. ZZP used to say that return style systems are useless but now offer them as an option on their site. They even offer the same Regulator as OTTP. Actually, right now, the site does not allow you buy the kit without a Fuel Lab regulator...
2. ZZP BRFPS (without the return setup) is good if you need just a little bit more fuel. Most people who need a lot more fuel and try to adjust the FP ending up breaking the adjustment screw/regulator. When they post for help with they end up getting scolded by ZZP for doing something they were not supposed to do. But ZZP always comes through to help them out. But first they make you look like an idiot! lol
3. I have not heard of anyone running a OTTP return style system ever complain about not having enough fuel. They can get it when they need it and not have to worry about breaking something in the kit.
4. Not to name drop but the person who made the most power with a TVS and E85 (and didn't blow his engine) was running the system from OTTP.
5. ZZP has gotten good results with their BRPFS buy turning up the FP when needed. IIRC, the first LSJ 2.3L stroker engine they built was running a M62, 60#, E85 and their BRFPS with the FP turned up to ~70psi. The made like 360whp with that setup. Their 2.4L LSJ stoker made over 400whp on the same setup but with 80# injectors.
6. As a "Return after the fuel rail option" Both kits are priced the same.
If I misspoke somewhere, please feel free to correct me.
2. ZZP's kit offers just as much fuel as any solution. It's limited by the pump(s) used, not the return system. In that case ZZP offers more pump solutions and higher fuel output solutions than anyone on the planet for the Ecotec platform.
3. Moot point. See #2
4. Moot point. Maybe the highest NA car has our kit, maybe the highest M62 has ours, highest car period runs our systems, highest TVS may have OTT. None of that matters really as any kit does not limit fuel flow, the pump does.
5. Any kit allowing fuel pressure to change with boost/vac is going to give you what's needed in a high boost or E85 setup.
6. I dont' think so but maybe. If that's the case, ZZP is FAR better to work with than OTT. We don't scam customers.
Honestly no need to bash competition. Both are good kits.. #6 .... Hahahahahahaha wooooooooow calm down bro .... Scanning, that's a very big assumption .......... I've seen issues on both sides..
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I don't think the two kits should be compared apples to apples. One uses stock components and the other use's aftermarket parts. The BRFS is a nice kit for what it does, but it lacks for a higher hp build imho. If you run dual pumps you will have a hard time using the brfs because of the stock regulator, it doesn't have enough bypass flow for the dual pumps under most conditions. Other area's it lacks, no fuel pressure gauge and it's not as easy to adjust pressure as a aftermarket regulator.
second you need 2 people one at the rail and on at the reg to see your fb when adjusting zzps kit
and zzp always ask why whould you want to change fuel pressure?
why wouldnt someone want to thats part of the reason of installing an aftermarket regulator
^No matter what you will have to get under the car to drop the tank and remove the stock regulator from the car.
No you dont need two people, yes it would be easier, but its not needed. Turn the regulator and go check the pressure.
They make the kit and explained why you would need higher FP, I have never seen them ask why you would want it.
No you dont need two people, yes it would be easier, but its not needed. Turn the regulator and go check the pressure.
They make the kit and explained why you would need higher FP, I have never seen them ask why you would want it.
Our kit uses a fuel lab regulator. You copied us and switched from the Aeromotive you were using to the Fuel lab. Funny you should try and knock our kit after you copied it.
Yes, good example.
Customer installed it wrong. I told him how to trouble shoot and he replied 'why should I do that, what will it prove'. Eventually I got him to do it anyway and we discovered he had done the install wrong. Our kit was fine.
1. For every build done on CSS, a full return system has no benefits. Due to the misinformation spread around it's been easier to give people what they want than fight the battle. ZZP sold the fuel lab long before OTT, OTT copied ZZP and now offers it instead of the Aeromotive. Maybe done on purpose, maybe coincidence. Doesn't matter.
2. ZZP's kit offers just as much fuel as any solution. It's limited by the pump(s) used, not the return system. In that case ZZP offers more pump solutions and higher fuel output solutions than anyone on the planet for the Ecotec platform.
3. Moot point. See #2
4. Moot point. Maybe the highest NA car has our kit, maybe the highest M62 has ours, highest car period runs our systems, highest TVS may have OTT. None of that matters really as any kit does not limit fuel flow, the pump does.
5. Any kit allowing fuel pressure to change with boost/vac is going to give you what's needed in a high boost or E85 setup.
6. I dont' think so but maybe. If that's the case, ZZP is FAR better to work with than OTT. We don't scam customers.
Yes, good example.
Customer installed it wrong. I told him how to trouble shoot and he replied 'why should I do that, what will it prove'. Eventually I got him to do it anyway and we discovered he had done the install wrong. Our kit was fine.
1. For every build done on CSS, a full return system has no benefits. Due to the misinformation spread around it's been easier to give people what they want than fight the battle. ZZP sold the fuel lab long before OTT, OTT copied ZZP and now offers it instead of the Aeromotive. Maybe done on purpose, maybe coincidence. Doesn't matter.
2. ZZP's kit offers just as much fuel as any solution. It's limited by the pump(s) used, not the return system. In that case ZZP offers more pump solutions and higher fuel output solutions than anyone on the planet for the Ecotec platform.
3. Moot point. See #2
4. Moot point. Maybe the highest NA car has our kit, maybe the highest M62 has ours, highest car period runs our systems, highest TVS may have OTT. None of that matters really as any kit does not limit fuel flow, the pump does.
5. Any kit allowing fuel pressure to change with boost/vac is going to give you what's needed in a high boost or E85 setup.
6. I dont' think so but maybe. If that's the case, ZZP is FAR better to work with than OTT. We don't scam customers.
As for the limits of your system, it's only the stock regulator system that has limits. Once the pumps flow more than the return can handle pressure will go up. At that point you will need a aftermarket regulator. But as I said before the systems are apples to oranges different and really shouldn't be compared.
We copied you by changing to a different regulator that is cheaper and still made in the usa...... It doesn't matter who sold it first, we have sold it for years now and you just noticed. lol
As for the limits of your system, it's only the stock regulator system that has limits. Once the pumps flow more than the return can handle pressure will go up. At that point you will need a aftermarket regulator. But as I said before the systems are apples to oranges different and really shouldn't be compared.
As for the limits of your system, it's only the stock regulator system that has limits. Once the pumps flow more than the return can handle pressure will go up. At that point you will need a aftermarket regulator. But as I said before the systems are apples to oranges different and really shouldn't be compared.
For both kits you remove the stock regulator, but their base kit uses a stock gm style regulator and fuel rail parts (most likely from a 3.8). Because it's a stock part it isn't designed for massive fuel flow. I would bet an aeromotive stealth pump would see pressure creep up with it and with dual pumps it would be completely useless. When fuel flow goes up the return line size and regulator size have to go up, if they don't they become a restriction and that causes the fuel pressure to rise.
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For both kits you remove the stock regulator, but their base kit uses a stock gm style regulator and fuel rail parts (most likely from a 3.8). Because it's a stock part it isn't designed for massive fuel flow. I would bet an aeromotive stealth pump would see pressure creep up with it and with dual pumps it would be completely useless. When fuel flow goes up the return line size and regulator size have to go up, if they don't they become a restriction and that causes the fuel pressure to rise.
For both kits you remove the stock regulator, but their base kit uses a stock gm style regulator and fuel rail parts (most likely from a 3.8). Because it's a stock part it isn't designed for massive fuel flow. I would bet an aeromotive stealth pump would see pressure creep up with it and with dual pumps it would be completely useless. When fuel flow goes up the return line size and regulator size have to go up, if they don't they become a restriction and that causes the fuel pressure to rise.
We had a version of the kit that used a stock regulator. No one outflowed it so the point is moot. In terms of dual pumps, only ZZP sells that so I'm not sure how you can say anything about it. ZZP has been in front of fueling for the Ecotec platform for a long time. Long lists of firsts and more options than anyone. We have a system avialable on our site capable of 1000HP using a stock fuel tank and no crazy mods needed. When it comes to being serious, only ZZP offers solutions.
On top of that there are pending law suits against them. Not sure they'll be around much longer as they settle. Do you want your $ out there?
Finally, don't take my word. Assume I'm making it all up. Just get curious enough to investigate for yourself.
First off zoomer, kind of tired of threads going into the opposite way it should, like bashing other vendors, or saying you have a bigger epenis then josh at ottp .. honestly who cares, one of the mods need to clean this b.s up ... If ottp is having issues, that doesnt mean it needs to be brought out onto a public forum. I'm sure people can dig stuff on zzp. Whooooooooooooooo cares.. people will spend money where they see fit. The more you trash talk or argue with someone on a forum just pushes people away... I'm sure your going to argue with me about my comment. But it was not meant with negativity. It's meant to get threads back to topic and hopefully get this I'm better then you **** out of here.
And nothing against you zoomer, but from what I've seen of you I would never take your word for anything just because of how you treat others.
Sorry.. no disrespect, no trust there.
Sorry.. no disrespect, no trust there.
Our kit uses a Fuel Lab regulator, same as yours.
We had a version of the kit that used a stock regulator. No one outflowed it so the point is moot. In terms of dual pumps, only ZZP sells that so I'm not sure how you can say anything about it. ZZP has been in front of fueling for the Ecotec platform for a long time. Long lists of firsts and more options than anyone. We have a system avialable on our site capable of 1000HP using a stock fuel tank and no crazy mods needed. When it comes to being serious, only ZZP offers solutions.
It's not an assumption. It's been posted many, many times by customers and their threads get deleted per OTT request. I have them all saved though.
On top of that there are pending law suits against them. Not sure they'll be around much longer as they settle. Do you want your $ out there?
Finally, don't take my word. Assume I'm making it all up. Just get curious enough to investigate for yourself.
We had a version of the kit that used a stock regulator. No one outflowed it so the point is moot. In terms of dual pumps, only ZZP sells that so I'm not sure how you can say anything about it. ZZP has been in front of fueling for the Ecotec platform for a long time. Long lists of firsts and more options than anyone. We have a system avialable on our site capable of 1000HP using a stock fuel tank and no crazy mods needed. When it comes to being serious, only ZZP offers solutions.
It's not an assumption. It's been posted many, many times by customers and their threads get deleted per OTT request. I have them all saved though.
On top of that there are pending law suits against them. Not sure they'll be around much longer as they settle. Do you want your $ out there?
Finally, don't take my word. Assume I'm making it all up. Just get curious enough to investigate for yourself.
Guess things don't change much around here.
OTT ran the fuel lab reg before zzp. I know that for sure before i stopped surfing here daily you were still using the oe reg not a fuel lab.
Just a question where are you getting your information from? lawsuits? going under?
You must be confused last i checked orders were still being placed and shipped. Im pretty sure ott will be just fine.
Thanks for the laugh though, i needed that.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
lol, it's sort of ironic that you wouldn't take Zoom's word based on the fact that he is not afraid to tell people the truth.
Former Vendor
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
If god came down and said the world was going to end tomorrow and then zoomer said the same thing. I still wouldn't beleive one word he says.. . may be true may be false.. Id believe bill Clinton any day before I believe zoomer... Sorry... No disrespet.. .
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
I agree that you would. A lot of that is on you, though.
Incorrect Matt, a lot of it falls on the fact zoomer trash talks everyone and disrespects all that is either competition or can be later on. Why or how could I respect and trust anything he says... But let's keep this thread on topic !
Former Vendor
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Your statement further proves my point. Your style of posting on the forum is to trash talk someone and then throw in something like, "No disrespect" or "I still like you", or something along those line. That is simply the cowardly way to talk bad about someone. For example, you might say that someone is a liar and an a-hole, but you are the better man so you are not going to be mean to that person. It is simply a passive aggressive way to fight your battle. It's not like it's tough to see through it. On the other hand, Zoom just puts it out there. He's not afraid that someone might not like him, so he doesn't try to sugar coat a pile of crap like a lot of people do.
I actually think its just a coincidence that you both use the Fuelab stuff, so that topic can probably be dropped. 
In the first month or two of 2010, Josh approached a bunch of us on a private forum with the idea of using the Fuelab stuff as a way of bringing the cost down on his return kits. I'm quite sure that at that time ZZP didn't offer a full system return kit, as I was shopping around for one. With that said, I'm pretty sure that Ryan already had one on his car - or was in the process of putting one on his car.
In the first month or two of 2010, Josh approached a bunch of us on a private forum with the idea of using the Fuelab stuff as a way of bringing the cost down on his return kits. I'm quite sure that at that time ZZP didn't offer a full system return kit, as I was shopping around for one. With that said, I'm pretty sure that Ryan already had one on his car - or was in the process of putting one on his car.