Japeatr's install pics of Powell Custom Fuel System
11-04-2013, 11:39 AM
#54
Good stuff man. Nice write up and pics. I am hoping to get by with less work into my fuel system since I will be turbo, and that doesn't seem to require quite the fueling of an SC setup.
On the TVS as you said, I was experiencing the same thing. I would do a 40 roll and up around 130-135 it would fall on its face and go completely lean. When I would go log, it would make it to 140+ easily, until I realized I was starting around 70 mph in 3rd for my testing. That is when I started to suspect the canister emptying out. When I drilled holes in the canister it would cut out lean during a pull exactly how it did at the high speeds, but it would do it right after I hit the gas as the fuel would slosh out the holes to the back of the tank. With a full tank and the holes drilled, I could run up to 150mph from 40 with no problems.
You are on the right track here, and while you may be "over-building" there is nothing wrong with going to extremes.
On the TVS as you said, I was experiencing the same thing. I would do a 40 roll and up around 130-135 it would fall on its face and go completely lean. When I would go log, it would make it to 140+ easily, until I realized I was starting around 70 mph in 3rd for my testing. That is when I started to suspect the canister emptying out. When I drilled holes in the canister it would cut out lean during a pull exactly how it did at the high speeds, but it would do it right after I hit the gas as the fuel would slosh out the holes to the back of the tank. With a full tank and the holes drilled, I could run up to 150mph from 40 with no problems.
You are on the right track here, and while you may be "over-building" there is nothing wrong with going to extremes.
11-04-2013, 11:51 AM
#55
So, since the (factory) sump is known to have issues with extended demand on track (something zzp doesn't do) then I don't see the reason behind you knocking a surge tank so hard.
I agree that there shouldn't be that much of a delivery issue at 400hp.
But beyond that, I personally see the zzp dual pump as a band aid that will still only take you so far.
The nice thing about jap's setup is that he can now pretty easily add a second 044 if needed, and never again have to worry about running the canister dry.
I agree that there shouldn't be that much of a delivery issue at 400hp.
But beyond that, I personally see the zzp dual pump as a band aid that will still only take you so far.
The nice thing about jap's setup is that he can now pretty easily add a second 044 if needed, and never again have to worry about running the canister dry.
the zzp dual intank a band aid yea boy its a huge band aid said no one ever considering they are making the power 90% of the people dream of making with their fuel system calling it a band aid is stupid just because its not on the yellow bullet dose not make it so or the fact they do it without a surge tank dose not make it so straight liners don't need a curvy fuel system they cant use
Good stuff man. Nice write up and pics. I am hoping to get by with less work into my fuel system since I will be turbo, and that doesn't seem to require quite the fueling of an SC setup.
On the TVS as you said, I was experiencing the same thing. I would do a 40 roll and up around 130-135 it would fall on its face and go completely lean. When I would go log, it would make it to 140+ easily, until I realized I was starting around 70 mph in 3rd for my testing. That is when I started to suspect the canister emptying out. When I drilled holes in the canister it would cut out lean during a pull exactly how it did at the high speeds, but it would do it right after I hit the gas as the fuel would slosh out the holes to the back of the tank. With a full tank and the holes drilled, I could run up to 150mph from 40 with no problems.
You are on the right track here, and while you may be "over-building" there is nothing wrong with going to extremes.
On the TVS as you said, I was experiencing the same thing. I would do a 40 roll and up around 130-135 it would fall on its face and go completely lean. When I would go log, it would make it to 140+ easily, until I realized I was starting around 70 mph in 3rd for my testing. That is when I started to suspect the canister emptying out. When I drilled holes in the canister it would cut out lean during a pull exactly how it did at the high speeds, but it would do it right after I hit the gas as the fuel would slosh out the holes to the back of the tank. With a full tank and the holes drilled, I could run up to 150mph from 40 with no problems.
You are on the right track here, and while you may be "over-building" there is nothing wrong with going to extremes.
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 11-04-2013 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-04-2013, 04:16 PM
#65
Our issues do seem to be slightly different. Your starts to lean out slowly up in the high rpms, where mine would make it all the way to 8k, but as soon as I would get up around 130-135 in 4th from a 2nd gear 40mph roll on, in 4th even at like 6,500 it would just go from 11's AFR straight to 18+ AFR in a matter of about 1-2 seconds. To me yours more sounds like lack of pump, and mine sounds more like an empty canister. I could also be wrong. But with more pump you would have probably ran into the same issues I was, if you hadn't already.
11-04-2013, 07:14 PM
#67
not sure what you are suggesting, even the stock weaksos pump ,which in this system has no pressure restriction can happily pump away. But its job is to be filling one litre on demand. Calculate the fuel requirement and its inconceivable to me that any engine can use one litre of fuel so fast that an unrestricted /no pressure stock pump cant deliver. Do you follow what I am saying?
if the capability of the un restricted stock pump is , lets say, 100 gallons an hour, then it could fill the one litre surge tank in 8 seconds. Put another way , what rate do you think these engines could consume one litre of fuel?
if the capability of the un restricted stock pump is , lets say, 100 gallons an hour, then it could fill the one litre surge tank in 8 seconds. Put another way , what rate do you think these engines could consume one litre of fuel?
11-04-2013, 07:38 PM
#68
Exactly. MrB, you keep mentioning how pressure decreases flow. Which is exactly right. So naturally, lowering pressure INCREASES flow. And it does so drastically.
I honestly don't understand the argument here. Points keep being brought up that have already been covered and agreed upon.
I honestly don't understand the argument here. Points keep being brought up that have already been covered and agreed upon.
11-04-2013, 07:45 PM
#69
not sure what you are suggesting, even the stock weaksos pump ,which in this system has no pressure restriction can happily pump away. But its job is to be filling one litre on demand. Calculate the fuel requirement and its inconceivable to me that any engine can use one litre of fuel so fast that an unrestricted /no pressure stock pump cant deliver. Do you follow what I am saying?
if the capability of the un restricted stock pump is , lets say, 100 gallons an hour, then it could fill the one litre surge tank in 8 seconds. Put another way , what rate do you think these engines could consume one litre of fuel?
if the capability of the un restricted stock pump is , lets say, 100 gallons an hour, then it could fill the one litre surge tank in 8 seconds. Put another way , what rate do you think these engines could consume one litre of fuel?
Say the engine is demanding 310lph of fuel at wot (and the 044 is happy to supply it)
Yet the in tank pump filling the surge tank at only 300lph (which is unrealistically low given zero pressure)
So the fuel level in the surge tank would be decreasing at a rate of 10lph.
So it would take SIX MINUTES of full wot without even lifting the gas an inch to drain the tank.
Think about it.
11-04-2013, 10:10 PM
#75
and "no vacuum at cruise" gambit? same thing? doesnt really become you, sir. Not that we should take ourselves too seriously, but a group here are sharing ideas and fronting up money to prove ideas. Arm, Japetr among them. Your trick timing guide bolts right up there with "best ideas of 2013"