Japeatr's install pics of Powell Custom Fuel System
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
Our issues do seem to be slightly different. Your starts to lean out slowly up in the high rpms, where mine would make it all the way to 8k, but as soon as I would get up around 130-135 in 4th from a 2nd gear 40mph roll on, in 4th even at like 6,500 it would just go from 11's AFR straight to 18+ AFR in a matter of about 1-2 seconds. To me yours more sounds like lack of pump, and mine sounds more like an empty canister. I could also be wrong. But with more pump you would have probably ran into the same issues I was, if you hadn't already.
U just totaly lost fuel
Not until mid September. I battled the fuel starvation on long pulls all summer. That is the reason I drilled the holes when I had to drop the tank to fix the wiring. After I drilled the holes I had fuel starvation right after I hit the gas unless I kept the tank near full. And with a full tank and drilled holes I had fueling from 40-150 when I tested it once. It was the first time I was able to go over 140 from 40 in months. Unfortunately I parked the car shortly after that and started to pull it apart. It was enough evidence for me though.
There are many different ways to skin a cat. That said, to supply enough fuel,in racing and with extreme turbo builds ( see the evo /nismo/honduh maniacs) surge tank fuel systems are pretty well standard fare. An external surge tank is a whole lot easier than modifiying the inside of a plastic fuel tank dicking around through a 6 inch hole to do it.
why would a smart Cobalt mod guy be any different than the rest of the high horsepower mod world?
Hmm.. Interesting discussion. Im on a 2.7 E85 80s and a return style and ZZP 350 pump. and my AFR isnt spiking at 7500. Im surprised the fellas with 1000s and upgraded pumps and return styles are? I understand the idea behind the surge tank. Just curious as to why im not having the same problem?
i made 320 no problem with a stock 04 pump for years. Bu for me I could not go round corners below half tank as detailed on the race track even with stage 2 and 260 whp.
I suspect Japetr has higher fuel needs than you. But the fact you are having no issues is good. Japetrs thread isnt about your car its about his, and his solutions to his issues. thats my take.
I suspect Japetr has higher fuel needs than you. But the fact you are having no issues is good. Japetrs thread isnt about your car its about his, and his solutions to his issues. thats my take.
didnt mean to thread jack. I should have added mine is an 06 so maybe what jap is saying about the 05's does have something to do with it. Anyways cool setup and write up. carry on.
also 2005 here
ok, well as most know Ive been having an issue with fuel starvation at higher loads/rpms as a result of 2 things. consumption of all the fuel in the fuel pump basket under a quick load up, and a fuel pump capacity straining to meet demands. These are two direct and independent issues that cant merely be solved by sticking a bigger pump in. even a dual in tank would drain the fuel pump basket dry on a 3rd gear punch
So after Bryan's visit to Texas i got serious about addressing both with one solution. Powell texted me back that he did in fact have a custom surge tank design to accomodate this additional capacity. in addition a Bosch 044 would be more than enough pump once the current arrangement of my DW300 pump was converted to lift pump duty only.
so i had him source me a Bosch 044 with custom Sytec bracket, custom Kinsler fuel filter, all custom AN6 lines with black fittings, and of course the surge tank.
ok so my setup was DW300 intank fuel pump, OTTP Return Style FUel System with Fuel Lab Regulator, OTTP fuel pump rewire, ID1000 injectors.
Powell worked on this setup for a month or so, txting me frequently to get an understanding of my setup and what fittings and routing were needed.
ok, so after getting this kit, I began removing the fuel tank filler hose, and evap canister.
from there i removed the two rear fuel tank strap bolts and mounted the custom surge tank in between the two straps.
i then mounted the Bosch 044 and ran the lines
after tightening all the lines i reinstalled the charcoal canister and rerouted the evap lines to make clearence. the fuel filler hose is slightly impinged due to surge tank placement.
on to wiring. i have hit a stop due to a decision. i was going to tap fuel pump voltage from the main distribution harness that is local to the fuel tank, but no i believe i will run power from the FP rewire kit as it has its own relay protection.
ill map all the wiring I have to run, as im doing a fair bit of it with the other mods im doing simulataneously as well and report back.
ok starting from the fuel pump assembly, both 5/16" return and 3/8" feed go to the surge tank. the surge tank feeds the bosch 044 inline. this flows thru the filter to the fuel rail on the engine. affter the injectors there is a adapter from the fuel rail to AN6 to my fuel lab regulator. after the regulator it returns to the back of the car to the surge tank.
im looking forward to tuning this car again now that i can feed the beast!
So after Bryan's visit to Texas i got serious about addressing both with one solution. Powell texted me back that he did in fact have a custom surge tank design to accomodate this additional capacity. in addition a Bosch 044 would be more than enough pump once the current arrangement of my DW300 pump was converted to lift pump duty only.
so i had him source me a Bosch 044 with custom Sytec bracket, custom Kinsler fuel filter, all custom AN6 lines with black fittings, and of course the surge tank.
ok so my setup was DW300 intank fuel pump, OTTP Return Style FUel System with Fuel Lab Regulator, OTTP fuel pump rewire, ID1000 injectors.
Powell worked on this setup for a month or so, txting me frequently to get an understanding of my setup and what fittings and routing were needed.
ok, so after getting this kit, I began removing the fuel tank filler hose, and evap canister.
from there i removed the two rear fuel tank strap bolts and mounted the custom surge tank in between the two straps.
i then mounted the Bosch 044 and ran the lines
after tightening all the lines i reinstalled the charcoal canister and rerouted the evap lines to make clearence. the fuel filler hose is slightly impinged due to surge tank placement.
on to wiring. i have hit a stop due to a decision. i was going to tap fuel pump voltage from the main distribution harness that is local to the fuel tank, but no i believe i will run power from the FP rewire kit as it has its own relay protection.
ill map all the wiring I have to run, as im doing a fair bit of it with the other mods im doing simulataneously as well and report back.
ok starting from the fuel pump assembly, both 5/16" return and 3/8" feed go to the surge tank. the surge tank feeds the bosch 044 inline. this flows thru the filter to the fuel rail on the engine. affter the injectors there is a adapter from the fuel rail to AN6 to my fuel lab regulator. after the regulator it returns to the back of the car to the surge tank.
im looking forward to tuning this car again now that i can feed the beast!
It is not possible to consume all of the fuel in the bucket. These cars don't pull fuel from the bucket, they pull it directly from the bottom of the tank. The fuel that is in the bucket is for cooling the pump. Cars that pull fuel from the bucket have a venturi style pump that fills the bucket so the pump can pump from inside. If you had a venturi style system, filling the tank to max capacity would have fixed the problem. The problem wasn't the tank/bucket it was the pump.
Your surge tank is nice for a road course where the pickup might come uncovered during hard turns with a low fuel level....but it won't fix your problem. The bosch 044 pump does flow more than the dw300 above about 75 psi, before that the dw300 flows more. So unless you had a bad dw300 you haven't gained much if anything in terms of fuel system capacity.
We now sell the new walbro 455lph e85 pumps. They completely blow away the bosch 044 pump. Walbro flows about 100lph more at 75 psi. They fit in the stock bucket with minimal mods and can support ~650whp on e85. Because they are designed for e85 they have sealed connections at the pump.
Last thing is your fuel line hose ends. I see they are all different colors, hopefully they aren't all different manufacturer's. When you pick a company to use for AN hose and fittings you have to use their hose ends with their line. Different companies have different specs for their lines and fittings. What will happen is the fitting won't have enough clamping force to hold the line and over time the line will leak and eventually the line will blow off and spray fuel everywhere possibly starting a fire and definitely leaving you stuck on the side of the road.
Usual stuff from OTT.
Dont even start about different manufacturers fittings, which are all built to AN or JIC standards. That said, the fittings on Japetrs setup are all from Russell. Russell dont make 180 deg fittings in other than clown color. So different colors- Japetr wanted black, just not possible for some fittings.
The surge tank is not just about capacity. And this thread isnt about who has a better fuel pump. You want to sell your stuff, start your own thread. In the meantime this about Japetrs Powell custom system.
SMH
Dont even start about different manufacturers fittings, which are all built to AN or JIC standards. That said, the fittings on Japetrs setup are all from Russell. Russell dont make 180 deg fittings in other than clown color. So different colors- Japetr wanted black, just not possible for some fittings.
The surge tank is not just about capacity. And this thread isnt about who has a better fuel pump. You want to sell your stuff, start your own thread. In the meantime this about Japetrs Powell custom system.
SMH
Usual stuff from OTT.
Dont even start about different manufacturers fittings, which are all built to AN or JIC standards. That said, the fittings on Japetrs setup are all from Russell. Russell dont make 180 deg fittings in other than clown color. So different colors- Japetr wanted black, just not possible for some fittings.
The surge tank is not just about capacity. And this thread isnt about who has a better fuel pump. You want to sell your stuff, start your own thread. In the meantime this about Japetrs Powell custom system.
SMH
Dont even start about different manufacturers fittings, which are all built to AN or JIC standards. That said, the fittings on Japetrs setup are all from Russell. Russell dont make 180 deg fittings in other than clown color. So different colors- Japetr wanted black, just not possible for some fittings.
The surge tank is not just about capacity. And this thread isnt about who has a better fuel pump. You want to sell your stuff, start your own thread. In the meantime this about Japetrs Powell custom system.
SMH
I never said the tank was about capacity.
This thread is actually a little about what the best pump and setup is. His problem wasn't fixed by the surge tank, it was fixed by the bosch pump. Since that pump isn't much of an upgrade over a dw300 or aeromotive 340 I offered my advice. Anyone can buy any of these parts online, they don't have to buy from me.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
I actually Had a problem like that on my camaro a few years ago.
-8 fuel line came off didn't take long for the duel holley blue lable pumps to flud my garage with fuel before i could shut it down. Ended up being a jegs brand hose with earls fitting.
-8 fuel line came off didn't take long for the duel holley blue lable pumps to flud my garage with fuel before i could shut it down. Ended up being a jegs brand hose with earls fitting.