Japeatr's install pics of Powell Custom Fuel System
#104
#105
Former Vendor
iTrader: (3)
I really hate to clutter up Japetrs thread here, so I will eventually start a new thread with some tips to add to this tech information. It includes how to install fittings on to tRussell proclassic and other Russell hoses. All our kits come with Russell alloy fittings and hose. Any steel adaptors are JIC zinc or powdercoated, also single sourced.
Russell Performance | Technical Information
all you really need to know.
One you do a few hundred making hoses gets to be pretty simple. Some basic tools like hose cutters for fabric hoses, and high speed air cut off tool for ss hoses are needed. I use reinforced tape for hose ends prior to cutting and a Snap on reversing driver for driving hose ends onto the hose. The actual insertion for the cutting interior fitting is best done by hand to start.
Russell Performance | Technical Information
all you really need to know.
One you do a few hundred making hoses gets to be pretty simple. Some basic tools like hose cutters for fabric hoses, and high speed air cut off tool for ss hoses are needed. I use reinforced tape for hose ends prior to cutting and a Snap on reversing driver for driving hose ends onto the hose. The actual insertion for the cutting interior fitting is best done by hand to start.
#107
Former Vendor
iTrader: (4)
Its not even about the pump in the tank really. If it fails you are stranded just like any other pump. Now what happens if your second pump goes bad or it doesn't kick in because your hobbs switch is bad or your controller is bad? The car will run and it will go lean, if you aren't watching closely enough you will be buying another engine.
I am all for getting a bigger pump rather than running two. Simple is better when it comes to most things.
#108
I want to point out top fuel dragsters run 2 pumps.
I have not had to deal with this situation yet I have seen these setups in other cars where one pump won't cut it.
If you are worried about a pump failing, you can always run a fail safe. I would suggest that anyways because of the cost of a built motor.
I have not had to deal with this situation yet I have seen these setups in other cars where one pump won't cut it.
If you are worried about a pump failing, you can always run a fail safe. I would suggest that anyways because of the cost of a built motor.
#109
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Once you do a few hundred making hoses gets to be pretty simple. Some basic tools like hose cutters for fabric hoses, and high speed air cut off tool for ss hoses are needed. I use reinforced tape for hose ends prior to cutting and a Snap on reversing driver for driving hose ends onto the hose. The actual insertion for the cutting interior fitting is best done by hand to start.
Now as far as multiple pumps go, its nothing new, GM Racing uses 3 on all of their 4 cylinder setups as per the build book.
Jap , Slitterell and I have all discussed fuel systems in depth as we are all local to each other. Im interested to see how this plays out, If it doesnt then gonna need to upgrade those injectors again and I know someone looking for ID1000s
I do have a question to pose here for a few of you,
If someone were to disable their evap system and remove it (as I have done), could the evap canister in the back of the car be cleaned out and used as a surge tank similar to this setup? Its been a while since ive climbed under the car and looked at my canister but it makes sense that it could be utilized for this. Any input?
#111
Former Vendor
iTrader: (3)
I would be shy to use it, its plastic and the mounting is a moulded part of the tank itself. I fooled around for years with my setup.
Back when that other vendor was getting parts supllied by me, I discussed this project and mentioned what I was looking at. In fact, all of the stuff I dream up comes from me pretty much. The trick is finding fabi types to make the stuff I dream up.
The only thing we sell that I didnt dream up, was when Watts Up at U race cars stopped making what are classified by sanctioning bodies as subframe connectors,( what I call Under car rails) thats the only thing that I adapted that I did not come up with myself. I made it better with a jack point.
The point I am making, is I think about, test and install and uninstall all the stuff we make and constantly monitor service life. I have replaced cabs, tow hooks and twb bushings and even PCV upgrades so I can have a look at them.
For this system the OP started the thread on, welll, I very nearly shipped to Japetr the surge tank which I have had ready for some years, which was originally envsioned and designed by me with a bracket to mount at the rear of the car . tucked up against the unibody frame box rail opposite the muffler side of the car, between the rail and the spare tire well.
Then I got to thinking . The parts were ready, but I didnt want to ship them to Japetr. He was patient , and had no idea what was taking so long. Bottom line I was not confident in sticking a one litre gasoline container where it could be easily hit in a rear end collision. As a location it was a bomb.
I darn near fell asleep under the Redline laying out different options.
I decided to put it where GM put the fuel filter pretty much, only higher up and farther out of the way, but inside the rear axle , like the fuel filter. We know all the delta's passed the NHTSA Crash tests.
The gas tank is plastic. So is the evap. But the evap bracket consists of the moulded triangular raised part that slots into a metal triangular guide, and a metal hoop the other end held on with one 6 x 1 mm bolt.
This thing holds potentially about 2-3 litres of gas I am thinking. I would totally be scared to use it as a surge tank.
my thoughts
Back when that other vendor was getting parts supllied by me, I discussed this project and mentioned what I was looking at. In fact, all of the stuff I dream up comes from me pretty much. The trick is finding fabi types to make the stuff I dream up.
The only thing we sell that I didnt dream up, was when Watts Up at U race cars stopped making what are classified by sanctioning bodies as subframe connectors,( what I call Under car rails) thats the only thing that I adapted that I did not come up with myself. I made it better with a jack point.
The point I am making, is I think about, test and install and uninstall all the stuff we make and constantly monitor service life. I have replaced cabs, tow hooks and twb bushings and even PCV upgrades so I can have a look at them.
For this system the OP started the thread on, welll, I very nearly shipped to Japetr the surge tank which I have had ready for some years, which was originally envsioned and designed by me with a bracket to mount at the rear of the car . tucked up against the unibody frame box rail opposite the muffler side of the car, between the rail and the spare tire well.
Then I got to thinking . The parts were ready, but I didnt want to ship them to Japetr. He was patient , and had no idea what was taking so long. Bottom line I was not confident in sticking a one litre gasoline container where it could be easily hit in a rear end collision. As a location it was a bomb.
I darn near fell asleep under the Redline laying out different options.
I decided to put it where GM put the fuel filter pretty much, only higher up and farther out of the way, but inside the rear axle , like the fuel filter. We know all the delta's passed the NHTSA Crash tests.
The gas tank is plastic. So is the evap. But the evap bracket consists of the moulded triangular raised part that slots into a metal triangular guide, and a metal hoop the other end held on with one 6 x 1 mm bolt.
This thing holds potentially about 2-3 litres of gas I am thinking. I would totally be scared to use it as a surge tank.
my thoughts
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; 11-13-2013 at 07:34 PM.
#112
Former Vendor
iTrader: (4)
I want to point out top fuel dragsters run 2 pumps.
I have not had to deal with this situation yet I have seen these setups in other cars where one pump won't cut it.
If you are worried about a pump failing, you can always run a fail safe. I would suggest that anyways because of the cost of a built motor.
I have not had to deal with this situation yet I have seen these setups in other cars where one pump won't cut it.
If you are worried about a pump failing, you can always run a fail safe. I would suggest that anyways because of the cost of a built motor.
Agreed, Ive had to shorten a few hundred on diesel truck compressor discharge lines.
Now as far as multiple pumps go, its nothing new, GM Racing uses 3 on all of their 4 cylinder setups as per the build book.
Jap , Slitterell and I have all discussed fuel systems in depth as we are all local to each other. Im interested to see how this plays out, If it doesnt then gonna need to upgrade those injectors again and I know someone looking for ID1000s
I do have a question to pose here for a few of you,
If someone were to disable their evap system and remove it (as I have done), could the evap canister in the back of the car be cleaned out and used as a surge tank similar to this setup? Its been a while since ive climbed under the car and looked at my canister but it makes sense that it could be utilized for this. Any input?
Now as far as multiple pumps go, its nothing new, GM Racing uses 3 on all of their 4 cylinder setups as per the build book.
Jap , Slitterell and I have all discussed fuel systems in depth as we are all local to each other. Im interested to see how this plays out, If it doesnt then gonna need to upgrade those injectors again and I know someone looking for ID1000s
I do have a question to pose here for a few of you,
If someone were to disable their evap system and remove it (as I have done), could the evap canister in the back of the car be cleaned out and used as a surge tank similar to this setup? Its been a while since ive climbed under the car and looked at my canister but it makes sense that it could be utilized for this. Any input?
#115
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Itll hold 100psi of fuel pressure, ask me how i know... lol
Ok that is the info I was looking for,
I asked because when I was setting up my return style system, I used the evap line under the car as my return line. I followed OTTP instructions on removing the ball valve in the tank and I left the restrictor that the ball valve closes off in. Well within a few seconds of starting the car, the pressure shot up to over 100psi and wouldnt relieve from adjusting the FPR. Shut off car, disconnected the line to the top of the Evap canister and it was full to the top. Drained it, rerouted lines thinking that evap getting fuel was the issue, started car again over 100 psi and blew the line off the top of the fuel pump canister. I bought a new fuel pump, this time removed the restrictor and ball valve and everything else looking restrictive and never had a problem again.
I would be shy to use it, its plastic and the mounting is a moulded part of the tank itself. I fooled around for years with my setup.
The gas tank is plastic. So is the evap. But the evap bracket consists of the moulded triangular raised part that slots into a metal triangular guide, and a metal hoop the other end held on with one 6 x 1 mm bolt.
This thing holds potentially about 2-3 litres of gas I am thinking. I would totally be scared to use it as a surge tank.
my thoughts
The gas tank is plastic. So is the evap. But the evap bracket consists of the moulded triangular raised part that slots into a metal triangular guide, and a metal hoop the other end held on with one 6 x 1 mm bolt.
This thing holds potentially about 2-3 litres of gas I am thinking. I would totally be scared to use it as a surge tank.
my thoughts
I asked because when I was setting up my return style system, I used the evap line under the car as my return line. I followed OTTP instructions on removing the ball valve in the tank and I left the restrictor that the ball valve closes off in. Well within a few seconds of starting the car, the pressure shot up to over 100psi and wouldnt relieve from adjusting the FPR. Shut off car, disconnected the line to the top of the Evap canister and it was full to the top. Drained it, rerouted lines thinking that evap getting fuel was the issue, started car again over 100 psi and blew the line off the top of the fuel pump canister. I bought a new fuel pump, this time removed the restrictor and ball valve and everything else looking restrictive and never had a problem again.
#117
Former Vendor
iTrader: (4)
The way I see it you only have 2 options for big power with one pump and the surge tank setup. You can go the quiet route and use a Bugatti Veyron pump, it has weird fittings and is long. But it does flow a lot. The other option I like is the fuelab prodigy pump and regulator. The regulator is a direct swap for the one you currently have but it also has some wiring and it talks directly to the pump and tells it when to send more fuel. That kind of pump is louder but that system has shown to be very reliable on street cars.
#120
Funny, Powell and I were just talking about that a couple days ago...
Anyway, it's jap's car. He's the one responsible for modifying it as he sees fit. This setup accomplishes his goal in a safe, effective, and easily upgradable way. That's all there is to it.
If someone doesn't like it, fine. Do your own car your own way.
Anyway, it's jap's car. He's the one responsible for modifying it as he sees fit. This setup accomplishes his goal in a safe, effective, and easily upgradable way. That's all there is to it.
If someone doesn't like it, fine. Do your own car your own way.
#121
#123
Former Vendor
iTrader: (3)
funny thing is, an LNF has a lift pump and a high pressure pump.
so does every diesel out there.
putting in a surge tank between the lift pump and the high pressure pump is hardly revolutionary. Like I said earlier, before 27385049 whining posts about why twopumps why surge etc, Evo guys run these things a lot. and Honda, DSM JDM etc.
or if you like race cars everywhere.
meh. There was a guy worked for GM undercontract in 04, who didnt last long , brought in a humungous pump weighed a ton and would have pumped enough if you used water to put out forest fires. wanted us to use it.
we didnt.
so does every diesel out there.
putting in a surge tank between the lift pump and the high pressure pump is hardly revolutionary. Like I said earlier, before 27385049 whining posts about why twopumps why surge etc, Evo guys run these things a lot. and Honda, DSM JDM etc.
or if you like race cars everywhere.
meh. There was a guy worked for GM undercontract in 04, who didnt last long , brought in a humungous pump weighed a ton and would have pumped enough if you used water to put out forest fires. wanted us to use it.
we didnt.