I dunno lol haven't tried that yet . I'm gonna wait till my tuner is done going over it to post any real info. The other air/air setup euthinasia made as far as I'm concerned, was designed to fail. MP90=old tech with a 2" inlet and outlet. Of course it worked like a POS.

 

Never ceases to amaze me about where such ludicrous information is sought from.

The mp90 with out being pushed hard at all put out more hp and trq than many tvs setups.
As for the manifold.... no guessing on euthanasia end... the afr, temps, and timing were the same for the pre air to air test as they were with the air to air manifold on. A 50 whp loss was recorded, posted and proven.

What you created is not a true air to air manifold. You cannot expect to weld some pipe, and out engineer an engineer. Don't be fooled by what your killer chiller is doing. Cooling mods do not make power... how many times does this have to be posted to stick?

The manifold as its been said since day one is not the culprit, the head is. Each laminova supports 50hp

A proper air/water setup will always perform over a air/air. There is nothing wrong with the oem intercooler.

 

I'm not saying euthenasia sucks or anything. He has done a admirable amount of pioneering when it comes to these cars. I just think that mani was a poor design. I know cooling mods don't make power. I'm trying to stop power loss. The oem setup was designed for what it did and not much more. Anything beyond that is a uphill battle.

 

There are plenty including myself who have had no problem with the oem intake manifold in the hp dept.

The oem manifold isn't losing power.
A blower pushing air into a box then thru a set of tubing, finally coming back into the box to meet with the intake side of the head is Rediculous and is the reason why it doesn't work on our application effectively.

You want to see a increase in flow on the intake side. Gut the manifold out and slide in a heater core. Air to air is not the answer.

 

i do eventually plan to do something similar

 

We got one, waiting to pick it up from the machine shop

 

glad to see someone working the active intercooler idea, the issue is going to be fluid volume, my design in the advanced section called for a several gallon tank in the trunk, the little option b res isnt going to hold enough chilled fluid. even a coleman cooler would work better. my plan called for a box about the size of a speaker box in the trunk with an evaporator core inside it and the box seperated with internally into layers by stacked sheets of metal about an inch apart with quarter sized holes in them at opposite ends of each level, forcing the water to go back and forth down the tank turning it into a 30 foot long one inch high track so that you have the full minute or so before water leaving the intercooler makes it back to the intercooler. then of course, if your stock evaporator core is still in the system your wasting a big part of the systems cooling ability. ideally you want to get the tank down to just above freezing but not below so the lami cores dont ice up. a little condensation is good, it will help transfer of heat. i hope your running the phenolic spacer so your manifold isnt conducting heat into your system. if you go to home depot they will have insulating rubber in sheets with a peel away side so it can be stuck onto surfaces. applying a sheet to the manifold should insulate it from engine bay heat well. then toss on a heat evacuator style hood like they run on the evo, such as
05-Up Cobalt Extractor Hood

but to be honest, if you want this to work well ill give you the answer. **** can the air to air part. look at the add on intercooler design for the 3800s that zzp did. now build one for the 2.0 cobalt that uses the griffin h/e in the regular fashion. basically a small radiator positioned right over the top opening of the intake manifold under the blower. the 3800s saw temp drops of as much as 40 degrees from just that radiator. that should do the job of a precooler well enough. the air to air adds a lot of extra space to fill with boost and is not a smoothly flowing area, its a nice stock manifold with a hole in it. you would need to design the air outlet and inlet to be smoothly angled from rectangles to a tube and then back again. just welding on a tube creates a ugly air flow into and out of the tube. so basically, two ic pumps, one for the precooler, zzp 3800 style, then one that moves fluid through the single pass using the trunk tank as a reservoir with a big evap core inside.

 

I want to make this clear, I am giving you information on what has been observed from our tuning session tonight and scan data. I am not here for a pissing match.
We will bring it into the shop and put it back on the Dyno by the weekend if all works out. We have a baseline on what the car made before and will compare it directly to what we have here.

Tonight was very interesting and I observed an absolute first ever on a 2.0LSJ.
The car pulls very hard (yes subjective) But I can tell you for sure if it isnt making more power than before, it is not far off. ( I think it is making more power by the data alone)
First time ever I have seen multiple back to back runs where the IAT2 drops below ambient!! Not only that, the IAT spark correction began adding 3 degrees of timing!! IAT2's dropped into the 60s!!! I zeroed the spark correction so as to keep everything where it was supposed to be because I did not want 28 deg. timing from correction. We will see on the dyno what timing will make the car happy.
Boost pressure is down, this is due to an obvious increase in airflow,(boost is only a measure of restriction) however, there is no boost lag (so to speak)
Airflow is up!! Previously MAF lb/hr peaked in the 33.7-34lb/hr. Tonight Peak was 37.2lb/hr and tickling the 10400hz range, never been that high before.
After 9 yes 9 full 1-4 gear pulls to 7000rpm, IAT2's finally peaked at 4deg above ambient. IAT1 = 77F IAT2= 81F
The killer chiller is working amazingly well, the Air to Air seems to be doing its job just fine. The dyno will tell. This set up will definetly allow Flatgod to drop pulley sizes dramatically.

Like I said, this is preliminary to dyno results coming soon. We will have it back on our Mustang dyno hopefully this weekend.

 

wow good to hear

 

Not a pissing match.. just reporting my testing, and unfortunately it failed.

On a positive note:

Good to know the ported manifold is showing an increase in flow, as it should. Others on a TVS w/ a ported intake manifold have reported up to 15whp gains.

Good to know the killer chiller is working correctly for once... Seems 90% of it's users on this forum always have **** poor results with it.

The question is, how much of a difference in power is their from your typical 120-140iat2 by 7000 to 81* by 7000.

Keep it up, looking forward to seeing a result, wash or not.

FYI: To make it easier on yourself. Zero out your spark adders and only rely on your high octane table to control spark.

 

oh the joys of keeping high iat's and heatsoak at bay...

nice work!

 

That is what I did, I only use a high octane table, also pasted over low octane until all tuning is done, then a new low octane map is made. I have never had to zero out down low as the LSJ's are never down there. Again, hopefully we have it on our dyno this weekend.

 

Interesting...

It's a necessity here in southern cali to zero those three columns/rows of cells. One day it's 90-110* the next its 60-70.

 

keeping this thread on my posts

 

Very interesting! Subd for more results.

 

Nice work... Mine was addinf timing as well, kind of funny to see

 

What size piping and intercooler did you end up using freakta?

 

2.5 in pipes... And the intercooler wasn't big. I can get the dimensions to you later but I figured I could go bigger later if needed but was never an issue and heat was never an issue and lag was never an issue

 

I want to experiment with downsizing my piping to 2" and using a smaller intercooler. The system works so well even with the 2.5 pulley on that I feel i should be able to shrink the volume without sacrificing the ability to cool too much. So long as I can keep the temps to below 120.

 

Just make sure you do the math and keep the velocity in the pipes below the critical number that I cant think of off the top of my head.

 

whats wrong with the 2.5 piping? I had horrible results on 2" piping

 

He wants to minimize the volume in the piping to increase throttle response.

 

Ya I remember you using 2" piping and me criticizing you for it. As an experiment at the end of last year I took my intercooler out and put a piece of piping in its place. By doing so I had reduced the volume of the air/air system by approx 20%. My boost pressure went up 2 psi, ait's up approx 40*. At the strip though I had my fastest mph and best et's of the year, without changing anything else. Which got me to thinking, I need to find the right amount of cooling with the minimum amount of volume. It has nothing to do with boost lag, the power still comes on right away, just need to reach the full potential of the system. Piping and intercoolers are fairly cheap so I don't mind burning through a few dollars to get the results I want.

 

What did you run at the track out of curiosity?

 

In the end your fighting the system... Why don't you just mod the car correctly rather than trying to band-aid a extremely inefficient setup ie: tvs 2.5.

Keep working @ it though if you insist. It's definitely interesting