YOUR current LSJ setup
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Joined: 02-01-11
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From: modesto
one thing the phenolic spacer cant stop is the radiant heat that is still dissapated from the engine and the radiator that still makes the intake manifold just as hot with the spacer as without
You want me to easily prove this to you?
Turn on 2 of your stove top to max setting
Use the bigger one for holding you hand 2 inches above it... Tell me how it feels
Now at the same time place your hand directly on the other ones surface(The smaller one)
Tell me which hand you remove first. Now on top of that please add a fan next to the stove so both hands will be getting a little airflow just like the underhood of a cobalt while moving.
I need not explain any farther. It you do this test, please video it. Fixed you spelling of dissipated...
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
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From: modesto
Radiant heat is NOTHING in comparison to direct....
You want me to easily prove this to you?
Turn on 2 of your stove top to max setting
Use the bigger one for holding you hand 2 inches above it... Tell me how it feels
Now at the same time place your hand directly on the other ones surface(The smaller one)
Tell me which hand you remove first. Now on top of that please add a fan next to the stove so both hands will be getting a little airflow just like the underhood of a cobalt while moving.
I need not explain any farther. It you do this test, please video it. Fixed you spelling of dissipated...
You want me to easily prove this to you?
Turn on 2 of your stove top to max setting
Use the bigger one for holding you hand 2 inches above it... Tell me how it feels
Now at the same time place your hand directly on the other ones surface(The smaller one)
Tell me which hand you remove first. Now on top of that please add a fan next to the stove so both hands will be getting a little airflow just like the underhood of a cobalt while moving.
I need not explain any farther. It you do this test, please video it. Fixed you spelling of dissipated...
it can't get rid if the heat fast enough.
Also again the phenolic isn't meant to dissipate heat at all.... It drastically reduces/eliminates heat transfer between a extremely hot motor and and what should be air temperature intake manifold.
I'm not sure what it's going to take to get you to understand that.... dissipation is what a radiator does... This is NOT what a phenolic is attempting to do by any way/shape or form.
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Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
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From: modesto
You're confused about what I was responding to. Please read before posting....
Also again the phenolic isn't meant to dissipate heat at all.... It drastically reduces/eliminates heat transfer between a extremely hot motor and and what should be air temperature intake manifold.
I'm not sure what it's going to take to get you to understand that.... dissipation is what a radiator does... This is NOT what a phenolic is attempting to do by any way/shape or form.
Also again the phenolic isn't meant to dissipate heat at all.... It drastically reduces/eliminates heat transfer between a extremely hot motor and and what should be air temperature intake manifold.
I'm not sure what it's going to take to get you to understand that.... dissipation is what a radiator does... This is NOT what a phenolic is attempting to do by any way/shape or form.
my point is that the sc gets hotter than the engine does..plain and simple
OK wait here I know how I can explain this since your completely missing what a phenolic does...
Which feels colder?
Assume is 0* outside and you're cars been outside all night, it's pretty cold when you get in right?
Everything in the car is now probably 0*
Assuming you have a metal shift knob. Which feels colder?
The metal shift knob?
or
The cloth on the floor?
It will be the shift knob...But why? Because heat transfer between the metal is much faster than the clothe even though it's the same temperature...
Same goes as being naked walking outside when it's 0* out and jumping into 0* water... The water is colder... But why both a completely around you... The water transfers heat/cold better.
Which feels colder?
Assume is 0* outside and you're cars been outside all night, it's pretty cold when you get in right?
Everything in the car is now probably 0*
Assuming you have a metal shift knob. Which feels colder?
The metal shift knob?
or
The cloth on the floor?
It will be the shift knob...But why? Because heat transfer between the metal is much faster than the clothe even though it's the same temperature...
Same goes as being naked walking outside when it's 0* out and jumping into 0* water... The water is colder... But why both a completely around you... The water transfers heat/cold better.
If the motor were to heat up the Intake manifold the laminova's are having to fight 2 evils rather than 1....
Plus we're talking about temps that a post laminova's so you're point is completely invalid all together to even involve the SC at that point....
The phenolic is reducing how much the air can heat back up prior to entering the motor and saving the laminova's from unnecessary heat transfer
It's like more fail on top of fail here..... Your confusing the purpose of the phenolic spacer like he is.....
Phenolic Spacer: Reduces/Eliminates Heat transfer... Thus 180-215* temps from the Engine DONT heat up the Intake Manifold.... Thus the Intake Manifold can stay cooler to better cool down the HOT Supercharger temps...
Understand?
Phenolic Spacer: Reduces/Eliminates Heat transfer... Thus 180-215* temps from the Engine DONT heat up the Intake Manifold.... Thus the Intake Manifold can stay cooler to better cool down the HOT Supercharger temps...
Understand?
again i'll state. the spacer will only help 'control' heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the engine and intake manifold. it does NOT prevent heat transfer due to over all engine bay temperature during a pull. nor does is prevent heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the supercharger and the intake manifold.
understand?
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Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
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From: modesto
While I agree the SC may get hotter than the motor... I have no idea...
If the motor were to heat up the Intake manifold the laminova's are having to fight 2 evils rather than 1....
Plus we're talking about temps that a post laminova's so you're point is completely invalid all together to even involve the SC at that point....
The phenolic is reducing how much the air can heat back up prior to entering the motor and saving the laminova's from unnecessary heat transfer
If the motor were to heat up the Intake manifold the laminova's are having to fight 2 evils rather than 1....
Plus we're talking about temps that a post laminova's so you're point is completely invalid all together to even involve the SC at that point....
The phenolic is reducing how much the air can heat back up prior to entering the motor and saving the laminova's from unnecessary heat transfer
Supercharger: spins/creates heat.... thus the 200-300* temps from the blower itself(not air temps) DO heat up the intake manifold.... thus the intake manifold doesn't stay cool.
again i'll state. the spacer will only help 'control' heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the engine and intake manifold. it does NOT prevent heat transfer due to over all engine bay temperature during a pull. nor does is prevent heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the supercharger and the intake manifold.
understand?
again i'll state. the spacer will only help 'control' heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the engine and intake manifold. it does NOT prevent heat transfer due to over all engine bay temperature during a pull. nor does is prevent heat transfer via metal to metal contact between the supercharger and the intake manifold.
understand?
Yes.... It's at some point becomes the same temp... Now please understand how energy transfer works....
MOTOR HEAT IS NOT TRANSFERED AS FAST AS METAL ON METAL with the phenolic inbetween.
Can you explain how a ******* divers air suit for deep deep diving works?
You being simple minded about it and don't understand how energy transfer works at all I'm starting to think.
I've given you plenty of simple example of this, but you still at playing dumb about it.... What are you not understanding?
I should try to test the theory about the intake mani heating up more with/without the Phenolic by grabbing a temp off the Intake Mani of a car with and one without after a 30min cruise at highway speed.
Plenty of companies have done testing about this, even with turbo set-up's it proves to help reduce air temps going into the motor.
If anything I think a Phenolic should be made for between the IM and SC as well. Completely separate the IM from everything else.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
lets all get back to the meaning of this thread...there is a ton of info goin around here..to any new comers i would recommend moving the spacer Down on there mod list..
Last edited by EXsoccer1921; Nov 25, 2012 at 06:44 PM. Reason: no tuning discussion.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
CORRECT. You sir have stated everything correctly.
The material is design to have heat on both sides... The point is the engine is hotter than the Intake Mani is just bolted to a SC...
Yes.... It's at some point becomes the same temp... Now please understand how energy transfer works....
MOTOR HEAT IS NOT TRANSFERED AS FAST AS METAL ON METAL with the phenolic inbetween.
Can you explain how a ******* divers air suit for deep deep diving works?
You being simple minded about it and don't understand how energy transfer works at all I'm starting to think.
I've given you plenty of simple example of this, but you still at playing dumb about it.... What are you not understanding?
I should try to test the theory about the intake mani heating up more with/without the Phenolic by grabbing a temp off the Intake Mani of a car with and one without after a 30min cruise at highway speed.
Plenty of companies have done testing about this, even with turbo set-up's it proves to help reduce air temps going into the motor.
If anything I think a Phenolic should be made for between the IM and SC as well. Completely separate the IM from everything else.
The material is design to have heat on both sides... The point is the engine is hotter than the Intake Mani is just bolted to a SC...
Yes.... It's at some point becomes the same temp... Now please understand how energy transfer works....
MOTOR HEAT IS NOT TRANSFERED AS FAST AS METAL ON METAL with the phenolic inbetween.
Can you explain how a ******* divers air suit for deep deep diving works?
You being simple minded about it and don't understand how energy transfer works at all I'm starting to think.
I've given you plenty of simple example of this, but you still at playing dumb about it.... What are you not understanding?
I should try to test the theory about the intake mani heating up more with/without the Phenolic by grabbing a temp off the Intake Mani of a car with and one without after a 30min cruise at highway speed.
Plenty of companies have done testing about this, even with turbo set-up's it proves to help reduce air temps going into the motor.
If anything I think a Phenolic should be made for between the IM and SC as well. Completely separate the IM from everything else.
tell me this how many endurance race engine use that material between parts.
i know 3 race teams and they don't use it...they tryed it
You haven't any proof of this while I have provided that two had with the exact same set-up
ZZP HE
Dual Pass
One with one without Phenolic while out at the track doing hard hot-laps the car without the phenolic had IAT2's above 180*. The other was seeing around 150* at highest....
You're making assumptions that the SC heat is at the contact point is heating up the IM so much that IAT's stay high.... While the laminova's deal with the air temp via their fins. I'm just saying the phenolic has proved its ability to keep IAT2's down in our book.
And like John said engine exhaust temps can be over 1200*??? Don't quote me on that so it's possible that a piston of which oil directly contacts in our cars gets pretty damn hot which is why our oil gets pretty damn how and guess what the valvecover is just a few inches from the intake ports isn't it and that same oil runs across the head with the cams, vs, ect....
So oil temps should be probably 10-30* above coolant temps which is probably why we have a oil cooler to keep those in check with coolant temps.
The phenolic just reduces the engine temp from transferring to the IM, is it better to have both side of your body in 0* water or just one.... I'll go with just one.
ZZP HE
Dual Pass
One with one without Phenolic while out at the track doing hard hot-laps the car without the phenolic had IAT2's above 180*. The other was seeing around 150* at highest....
You're making assumptions that the SC heat is at the contact point is heating up the IM so much that IAT's stay high.... While the laminova's deal with the air temp via their fins. I'm just saying the phenolic has proved its ability to keep IAT2's down in our book.
And like John said engine exhaust temps can be over 1200*??? Don't quote me on that so it's possible that a piston of which oil directly contacts in our cars gets pretty damn hot which is why our oil gets pretty damn how and guess what the valvecover is just a few inches from the intake ports isn't it and that same oil runs across the head with the cams, vs, ect....
So oil temps should be probably 10-30* above coolant temps which is probably why we have a oil cooler to keep those in check with coolant temps.
The phenolic just reduces the engine temp from transferring to the IM, is it better to have both side of your body in 0* water or just one.... I'll go with just one.
right
but a engine running lower boost with nos will see lower combustion chamber temps than a engine running more boost to make the same power..
hp is made by increasing the amount of oxygen in the cylinder...wen u increase oxygen u can add fuel...
one molecule of nos carries 2 adams of oxygen..its some thing like that...ill have to refer back to my performance engine chemistry book on the exact amount...
my point is that nos brings more oxygen faster to the cylinder.
and just cuz ur boost guage reads 20 psi dosnt mean ur cylinder gets pressure issed to 20 psi...it just means there will be a lot more air getting into the cylinder..
but a engine running lower boost with nos will see lower combustion chamber temps than a engine running more boost to make the same power..
hp is made by increasing the amount of oxygen in the cylinder...wen u increase oxygen u can add fuel...
one molecule of nos carries 2 adams of oxygen..its some thing like that...ill have to refer back to my performance engine chemistry book on the exact amount...
my point is that nos brings more oxygen faster to the cylinder.
and just cuz ur boost guage reads 20 psi dosnt mean ur cylinder gets pressure issed to 20 psi...it just means there will be a lot more air getting into the cylinder..
And the misinformation is grand.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: modesto
Im not tryin to argue with anyone run wat u want..
Im going off experiance and wat i do for a living and went to school for...BUILDING ENGINES and design...
You haven't any proof of this while I have provided that two had with the exact same set-up
ZZP HE
Dual Pass
One with one without Phenolic while out at the track doing hard hot-laps the car without the phenolic had IAT2's above 180*. The other was seeing around 150* at highest....
You're making assumptions that the SC heat is at the contact point is heating up the IM so much that IAT's stay high.... While the laminova's deal with the air temp via their fins. I'm just saying the phenolic has proved its ability to keep IAT2's down in our book.
And like John said engine exhaust temps can be over 1200*??? Don't quote me on that so it's possible that a piston of which oil directly contacts in our cars gets pretty damn hot which is why our oil gets pretty damn how and guess what the valvecover is just a few inches from the intake ports isn't it and that same oil runs across the head with the cams, vs, ect....
So oil temps should be probably 10-30* above coolant temps which is probably why we have a oil cooler to keep those in check with coolant temps.
The phenolic just reduces the engine temp from transferring to the IM, is it better to have both side of your body in 0* water or just one.... I'll go with just one.
ZZP HE
Dual Pass
One with one without Phenolic while out at the track doing hard hot-laps the car without the phenolic had IAT2's above 180*. The other was seeing around 150* at highest....
You're making assumptions that the SC heat is at the contact point is heating up the IM so much that IAT's stay high.... While the laminova's deal with the air temp via their fins. I'm just saying the phenolic has proved its ability to keep IAT2's down in our book.
And like John said engine exhaust temps can be over 1200*??? Don't quote me on that so it's possible that a piston of which oil directly contacts in our cars gets pretty damn hot which is why our oil gets pretty damn how and guess what the valvecover is just a few inches from the intake ports isn't it and that same oil runs across the head with the cams, vs, ect....
So oil temps should be probably 10-30* above coolant temps which is probably why we have a oil cooler to keep those in check with coolant temps.
The phenolic just reduces the engine temp from transferring to the IM, is it better to have both side of your body in 0* water or just one.... I'll go with just one.
I say nitrous increases cylinder temps compared to without. Then you cover your misinformation with changing boost levels. Nitrous oxide or n2o is two parts nitrogen, 1 part oxygen. More misinformation. You could **** out gold bricks for a living. Wouldn't change how little your information is worth.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-01-11
Posts: 2,799
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From: modesto