Zzp or ott
03-05-2012, 12:13 AM
#202
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To tell you the truth...
After noticing all the bickering on the forum between ZZP and OTTP, I will be reluctant to purchase anything from either of them. Not only between them, but with members on the forum at times as well.
I understand in some cases they need to explain themselves when they or one of their products are misrepresented, but it seems to go over the top in way too many occasions. To where whole threads get off-topic for a page or more at times.
My suggestion, like has been suggested already(by one of the two even IIRC, but then they even continued to argue...), would be to take it to PM/email/IM. Maybe one post to straighten out info for others, but not any claims about the other company good or bad. How about just say what yours is capable of and leave it at that? Then take the rest of the argument to a private source, we don't need to hear it.
Maybe I started frequenting the forums again at the wrong time, but I have come to view both parties as fairly unprofessional. This may not mean that they have inferior products and probably even have high quality products and possibly great customer service. As of right now though, all I've seen is behavior that is becoming rather annoying.
Not trying to talk bad on anyone. Just a suggestion that everyone (heck, some members could use this advice too) should cool off a bit and settle things in a professional manner.
After noticing all the bickering on the forum between ZZP and OTTP, I will be reluctant to purchase anything from either of them. Not only between them, but with members on the forum at times as well.
I understand in some cases they need to explain themselves when they or one of their products are misrepresented, but it seems to go over the top in way too many occasions. To where whole threads get off-topic for a page or more at times.
My suggestion, like has been suggested already(by one of the two even IIRC, but then they even continued to argue...), would be to take it to PM/email/IM. Maybe one post to straighten out info for others, but not any claims about the other company good or bad. How about just say what yours is capable of and leave it at that? Then take the rest of the argument to a private source, we don't need to hear it.
Maybe I started frequenting the forums again at the wrong time, but I have come to view both parties as fairly unprofessional. This may not mean that they have inferior products and probably even have high quality products and possibly great customer service. As of right now though, all I've seen is behavior that is becoming rather annoying.
Not trying to talk bad on anyone. Just a suggestion that everyone (heck, some members could use this advice too) should cool off a bit and settle things in a professional manner.
03-05-2012, 08:01 AM
#203
To tell you the truth...
My suggestion, like has been suggested already(by one of the two even IIRC, but then they even continued to argue...), would be to take it to PM/email/IM. Maybe one post to straighten out info for others, but not any claims about the other company good or bad. How about just say what yours is capable of and leave it at that? Then take the rest of the argument to a private source, we don't need to hear it.
Maybe I started frequenting the forums again at the wrong time, but I have come to view both parties as fairly unprofessional. This may not mean that they have inferior products and probably even have high quality products and possibly great customer service. As of right now though, all I've seen is behavior that is becoming rather annoying.
My suggestion, like has been suggested already(by one of the two even IIRC, but then they even continued to argue...), would be to take it to PM/email/IM. Maybe one post to straighten out info for others, but not any claims about the other company good or bad. How about just say what yours is capable of and leave it at that? Then take the rest of the argument to a private source, we don't need to hear it.
Maybe I started frequenting the forums again at the wrong time, but I have come to view both parties as fairly unprofessional. This may not mean that they have inferior products and probably even have high quality products and possibly great customer service. As of right now though, all I've seen is behavior that is becoming rather annoying.
It's not like people are spamming your email or forcing you to click on something. If it bothers you, don't read it. How simple is that?
The exception to the locking and deleting is when a topic goes completely off topic and people are talking about random crap. Then I see no point in letting it continue.
In terms of bashing, I think it can be a good thing. Customers need to be able to share experiences, even when bad. I've been in this game a long time and seen many people get scammed out of thousands of dollars. Many times, this could have been avoidable if the other people who got screwed had a chance to voice their opinion. How would you feel if you bought something in the classifieds and the guy never shipped. Then you found out, he has been scamming people for years but getting the complain threads deleted? You'd be upset. To a lesser degree, I see vendor bashing delete threads similarly. While not all of them are justified, I think customers are capable of reading through and deciding on their own what is legit and what isn't. I feel this has improved ZZP's business as customers get to see other people's opinions, our responses and decide for themselves. The Sky engine thread is a great example.
03-05-2012, 09:54 AM
#204
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I dont think I said anything should get locked or deleted. Just that it goes a little too far a little more often then it needs to. Go ahead and correct wrong info, but the bickering that gets put in makes it hard to pick out any correct info. I came here to read the forums in hopes of finding info for my LSJ build( which I have, thanks to many of the great tuners/vendors on this forum), but it gets rather annoying to have to sift through a bunch of bickering just to find the info. Then at times it's made confusing to find the right info with all the false info being thrown back and forth.
So in conclusion, I am all for correcting incorrect info; However, I am not willing to accept that the bickering needs to come along with it. I don't see how that benefits anyone, but rather see it as making a mess for people to sift through.
So in conclusion, I am all for correcting incorrect info; However, I am not willing to accept that the bickering needs to come along with it. I don't see how that benefits anyone, but rather see it as making a mess for people to sift through.
03-07-2012, 10:09 PM
#206
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03-11-2012, 12:18 PM
#209
if you rotate the engine with lower mounts and install and upper passenger side mount that locks the motor in its original position bad things may happen, vibration is the first thing. The drivers side upper mount is very soft, so in the end that will suffer a lot and bad things could happen. If you rotate the motor, use only the lower mounts to achieve this and follow the how to I have written for these mounts ifyou buy mine.
03-11-2012, 12:32 PM
#210
The other thing, is staying on Topic. I answered a post on mount but this thread is about ZZP andOTT. My experience with OTT has been a regrettable considering the time and effort I put into my products. All I can say is, people should consider their options carefully when choosing vendors. Feedback here is one way of making a decision. As a purchaser, I have had excellent experiences with vendors here like NGA sales, ZZP, and Crate Engine Depot.
One thing I have noticed, is that folks tend to post here first before they have talked to the vendor, in terms of what to do with an issue whatever it may be. Sometimes thats because the vendor is not easily accessible. I use email for ZZP and NGA sales, phjone for CED.
I would rather that folks contacted me if they have an issue with a part we have made, before they post on here. That way, they can at least report that they got help, or avoid embarassment as their issue was a faulty install or something else completely unrelated.
There is a lot of negative feedback on tuning. I can say this: a good tuner is hard to find, and doing a tune without dyno and street work as the tune is developed is probably not a good idea; if folks want to choose the cheapest safest way to mod their cars, GM upgrades are the best in the long run.
Once you modify your car beyond that, the car becomes a finicky pretty demanding beast, and can cost you a lot of money. The forums are full of bad experiences with extreme builds. And its hard to accept , be it your fault or someone elses fault.
That said, the folks that succeed are very happy. My area47 dyno and street tuned 328 whp tvs Redline runs super. The ZZP track cars are awesome. But all of us experience trouble at this level, when parts fail for whatever reason, or we make a mistake. I have had a maf sensor pull out of the air box on the track. Kaboom! Thats why I have three engines; one in the car, one spare ready to go, and one in build.
Good luck.
One thing I have noticed, is that folks tend to post here first before they have talked to the vendor, in terms of what to do with an issue whatever it may be. Sometimes thats because the vendor is not easily accessible. I use email for ZZP and NGA sales, phjone for CED.
I would rather that folks contacted me if they have an issue with a part we have made, before they post on here. That way, they can at least report that they got help, or avoid embarassment as their issue was a faulty install or something else completely unrelated.
There is a lot of negative feedback on tuning. I can say this: a good tuner is hard to find, and doing a tune without dyno and street work as the tune is developed is probably not a good idea; if folks want to choose the cheapest safest way to mod their cars, GM upgrades are the best in the long run.
Once you modify your car beyond that, the car becomes a finicky pretty demanding beast, and can cost you a lot of money. The forums are full of bad experiences with extreme builds. And its hard to accept , be it your fault or someone elses fault.
That said, the folks that succeed are very happy. My area47 dyno and street tuned 328 whp tvs Redline runs super. The ZZP track cars are awesome. But all of us experience trouble at this level, when parts fail for whatever reason, or we make a mistake. I have had a maf sensor pull out of the air box on the track. Kaboom! Thats why I have three engines; one in the car, one spare ready to go, and one in build.
Good luck.
03-11-2012, 02:58 PM
#211
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if you rotate the engine with lower mounts and install and upper passenger side mount that locks the motor in its original position bad things may happen, vibration is the first thing. The drivers side upper mount is very soft, so in the end that will suffer a lot and bad things could happen. If you rotate the motor, use only the lower mounts to achieve this and follow the how to I have written for these mounts ifyou buy mine.
03-11-2012, 03:15 PM
#213
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i forget what thread but i though he said he had only an ingalls and was pulling 1.8 or 1.9 60's on that alone, could be wrong, like i said just lookin for the correct info to learn instead of trying to cram my head with bad info and make myself look like a fool so when i get to a build im not wasting money buyin unnecessary parts and wasting time installing **** i dont need
03-11-2012, 03:55 PM
#214
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i forget what thread but i though he said he had only an ingalls and was pulling 1.8 or 1.9 60's on that alone, could be wrong, like i said just lookin for the correct info to learn instead of trying to cram my head with bad info and make myself look like a fool so when i get to a build im not wasting money buyin unnecessary parts and wasting time installing **** i dont need
03-11-2012, 04:14 PM
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