Zoomer - if you continue reading I said with the exact same cooling mods or no cooling mods. Also you CAN run a 2.8 without cooling mods just fine. Also I can go into detail if you would like about the temps, coolant temps, rpms and all of that but it really wouldn't matter to you now would it. Why wouldn't timing be equal...I made a statement that the ottp kit will produce higher hp numbers then the zzp kit. This is true because the 2.8 running the same timing, or MORE timing will produce more hp then your kit. This has nothing to do with me trying to help my argument. It's a FACT that the ottp kit WILL produce more power then the zzp kit. It is also a FACT that the ottp tune WILL produce more whp then the zzp tune does. *I can and will back this up with evidence if wanted*

I love how you change things.

You said
"My point is that you need to be more careful around here with what you quote as gospel"

"We have not received a single complaint about our stage 2 file"

Ok YOU may have not received any complaints but other people have complained about them. I am not saying your tunes are garbage by any means, I am just stating a fact that people have had issues with your tunes.

"I never said no one here has ever had a problem with our tunes."


"We have not received a single complaint about our stage 2 file"


Which is it zoomer? You have never had a complaint or you have had people with problems?

Another thing I would like to point out.

I said and I quote
"If you run your 3.0 and 60lbers against a 2.8 and 60lbers both with the exact same cooling mods, or both with no cooling mods the 2.8 will win."

Then you said
"You posted "with the exact same cooling mods" right after I said that you can't run the 2.8 w/o cooling mods. So you're changing the discussion to suit your assertion which is a false debate."

I am pretty sure you should finish reading what I said. I was never trying to change the parameters of which you were trying to argue in so to speak. A 2.8inch pulley with 60lbers WILL create more hp then a 3.0 and 60lbers as long as you are fair. If you limit the 2.8inch to 10 degrees on timing and push 20 on the 3.0 then obviously that changes things. But if the timing is EQUAL or close to it, the 2.8 WILL create more power. The timing would obviously be equal or close to it because any good tuner knows the limits of the car there tuning. So they can put the timing as high as possible without getting any knock. I am sorry zoomer, but you will not be winning this debate.

 

oh snap.....

 

Since you run more timing on larger pulleys then you do with smaller pulleys *not to say all people/companies do this* I will still bet that your 3.0inch pulley and X timing will not beat a 2.8 with X *less then your 3.0* timing.

Let me know the amount of timing your using on the 3.0 inch pulleys and I will test this. I will install a 3inch pulley and set the timing to whatever it is you want *on your tune* and then I will swap to a 2.8 inch pulley and put in 1 degree less timing. The 2.8 will make more power .

 

I love zzp's pcm tune. No problems great power. I've had nothing but great luck with there products and service. I will give zzp my buisness before anyone else.

 

How is your air to fuel ratio?
edit: nvm you don't have a wideband to monitor it.

Are you getting any knock?
edit: nvm you don't have an interceptor to monitor it.

How are your iat2's with the 2.7 inch pulley?
edit: nvm you have no way of monitoring them.

I hope zzp did a good job, otherwise you wouldn't even know lol.

 

ha ha ha ha "click"

 

Wow got some sand in ur vajaja or what? You kno not everyone need all of that **** to kno if your car is running right. How do you think you did it with older cars? You get to kno your car and can feel when its running great. I've been running this setup for a while now with no problems what so ever. So keep running your mouth cause un like I kno my car and kno when its running good or not.

 

"So keep running your mouth cause un like I kno my car and kno when its running good or not."

Ya and as a tuner I have NO idea what is going on with my own car lol. I wasn't trying to be a dick I was just stating that even if your car wasn't running right you wouldn't know lol. You can't "feel" your iat2's being to high or to low mate, sorry. You also can't "feel" your car being to rich/lean. You also generally can't "feel" your car running to much timing.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings lol but relax a bit, I wasn't attacking you I was just simply letting you know that you really don't KNOW if the car is running correctly or not, your just guessing by a "feeling".

There are lots of people that run setups with no problems...and then there motors blow. Ask a lot of the people on here that have ran intense tunes.

 

And I wasn't trying to start any trouble ether. All I was saying is I have the zzp tune and I love it that's all. Not dissing anyone elses tune or anything I'm just stating I like zzp.

 

Cool bro, there's nothing wrong with liking a vendor . I liked zzp until there downpipe broke at the flex pipe and then they were all gay about it. Everyone has there own opinions and experiences with different vendors though. Zzp has always been good to you and www.ottperformance.com has always been good for me . As long as our products work that's generally all we care about .

 

Yeah and that's all I was saying they have been good for me so far. Everyone has what works good for them. Ottp maybe dose put down more power but I have no idea. I was just stating I've been 100% happy with zzp tune.

 

I don't respond to emails? I've answered over a hundred today, and I'm not even part of customer service at ZZP. If you sent me an email that I didn't respond to, please let me know because it was either sent to the wrong email, filtered, or there was some other mistake made somewhere.

Once again, exactly as Zoom is saying, BS gets stated as fact on this forum and then people reading it suffer because they are falsely convinced that I will not help them mod their car. As stated, this type of stuff is why typical Cobalts are running much slower than they should be.

Now the truth comes out. You hold a grudge against ZZP based on a personal experience with your exhaust. Therefore you insist that ZZPs tune is inferior regardless of the facts.

 

I will come on record as saying the fastest stock blower no nitrous car runs our tune on a 2.85" and 60's.

 

That has always been the truth. I will always hold a grudge against zzp for selling poorly made downpipes and then treating the customer like **** when it breaks. I have held a grudge against zzp since then and even more so since you guys argue petty stuff on forums. Do you see any other company that is a vendor here get into pissing matches with other people? I think not. Not only is it petty and pointless but it makes you guys look like your owned by a bunch of 16 yr olds.

I never said that I haven't held a grudge against zzp, hell anyone who knows me knows I hate zzp. However I have never said anything AGAINST your tune, other then it is inferior to ottp's tune because I have TESTED that on the dyno. Tune for Tune the ottp puts down more power.

 

You are proving exactly what I said. You "hate zzp" for other reasons. Therefore, your opinion of our tune is pretty much worthless.

You can say it, but it doesn't mean it's true.

 

Lol.

 

zach06 u said that gmpp has an upgraded clutch. do u mean the exedy. can i have to website

and bluesupercharge were did u get u Megan Racing Drift-Spec Cat-Back from can i have the website

 

No he does not mean exedy. It is a GM Upgrade.

 

Nor is he claiming its one of thier cars. Even thou it was tuned by fast98 iirc
Just curious why isnt it true? to you anyways?

Zooomer has post "all fastest cobalt will be running the zzp heatexchanger in 09"'

Sure he can say what he likes but doesnt mean its true or will be.

 

Small pulleys don't do much for top end HP. They make more torque (about 3 ft/lbs per .1) but at the top they fall off quicker. This depends on other variables but timing makes more top end power. Assuming you can run 1 more deg per .1 drop in pulley size a 3.0 will make more power than a 2.8. If you had a dyno and the tools we do, you would know this, but you don't.

Here's a chart showing a 3.0 to a 3.1 with ideal temperature conditions and similar timing.
Notice you only gain 1 more HP from 3.1 dropping to 3.0 (no cooling mods).

A few more points that escape you. Our stage 2 file is not the same as our other files. The stage 2 file was developed when we released the stage 2 kit not even 2 months ago. You don't have the file, you've never used it or dyno'd it so you're just talking crap about things you have no clue about. Mainly our stage 2 tune.

Furthermore, we tested a stock Cobalt with a stock pulley, 3.1, 3.0, 2.9, 2.8, 2.7. We measured HP and torque and effect on timing. We know how much power is made or lost with each and there are more variables then what you probably understand. Continuing, the HP and ideal pulley size changes based on how long you are in the throttle. The longer you're in the throttle, the hotter things get, the quicker the power falls off with smaller pulleys. So yeah, if you kept timing the same (which would be dumb) and you had the car and intercooler totally cooled down and it was cool outside and you did one short pull, the 2.6 or 2.7 would make the most power. But in a real world, where you may go through a few gears, have the engine warmed up and be driving in 70 deg + temps, the larger pulleys will make more power.

Below is a comparison of 2.8 to 2.9 to 3.0" pulleys with 60# injectors, no cooling mods, I believe a catback exhaust and stock intake.

Notice the 2.8 makes the most torque but less HP than the 2.9 and 3.0? This is one pull with cool air. As you stay in the throttle, this becomes worse. This is the kind of technical knowledge that appears lost on you Zach but I would love to see your dyno charts comparing the pulley sizes and files. You have done this testing right?

I don't think I said heat exchangers, I meant "ZZP" as in ZZP parts. Since I made that post ZZP has gone from having one record (the LSJ HP record) to a few more. Fastest 2.4 and highest HP 2.4. Soon people running ZZP parts will have the rest of the records. Just give it a few months (maybe weeks)

You have never tested our stage 2 tune, and implying that "ZZP's tune makes less HP than OTT" is a lie based on you not liking ZZP. I wouldn't go on record with such a blanket statement ever because there are too many variables to say that. Are you implying that no matter what there is a magic tune that makes more power than another in every case? If so, it only shows a display of ignorance by the person making the claim.

 

Those runs barely made 200 on what most people would consider a safe AFR, 13 is a little high for most people here IMO.

Also, it would appear you allowed for no cooldown between those runs at all.

 

I got the exhaust from NGA Motorsports. there listed in the vendor index.

 

LOL this is hilarious.

First off here is the link for the upgraded clutch kit blue.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...2-P2301C0.aspx

Second off, just because zoomer has kinda pissed me off I will be uploading the stage 2 file that they sell on put on there pcm for EVERYONE to download. I DO have there stage 2 tune file and I HAVE ran it on a dyno.

I do have access to a dyno, I may not have all the tools and a dyno in my kitchen but I have a shop who sponsors me and I have spent many hours on there dyno.

I will post the link for anyone with hptuners to download there tune, that way you guys can save yourself some money and zzp makes less .

Update, here is the link I have for one of there tunes.
http://rapidshare.com/files/232948596/zzp_tuned_pcm.hpt

Also zoomer the tune that ottp uses depending on the mods uses more timing then your tunes. So I am sorry to say mate but there tunes DO make more power then yours. Also, where have I bashed your tunes? I am not bashing them I am just saying ottp makes more power.

 

thanks for the websites

 

No problem mate. The 2nd one is a link to download zzp's tune lol.