200whp N/A?
New Member
Joined: 12-05-10
Posts: 59
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From: illinois
HoW CAN YOU SAY THAT "IT SHOULDNT BE READING THIS HIGH"
ZOOMER. YOUR A FRACKING IDIOT! SINCE NO ONE HAS DONE THIS WE CANT SAY "IT SHOULDNT BE THIS OR THAT"
God your so close minded. Go build one yourself, same exact mods and if it makes a million hp less then ya, we can say...****...eveyrone else with these mods didnt make this why am I?
NO ONE ELSE HAS THIS SETUP>>>end of discussion on that! MAYBE 2-3 other people that are on this board are running stage 2 cams...MAYBE! and none of them have a shaved head, or full bolt ons that I know of and have dynod.
What an EXPERIANCED person does is use the same damed dyno every time because it gives an accurate representation of the changes..and **** THATS ALL DYNO NUMBERS ARE GOOD FOR!!!! Unless we ALLL dyno our cars same day on same dyno, comparing numbers really doesnt mean JACK **** AN DYOU SHOULD KNOW THAT!
so quite bein an ass hat and trying to win an argument that will ONLY be solved when I get a call fromt he dyno shop! and hate to break it to you. This dyno shows a few numbers low on quite a few cars. Buddy had a 2.2 ecotec with the M62 kit, was running low 14's with it and was showing 205whp.
And exactly to what elecblue06 was saying. a full 2+ points of AFR in the rich will make your numbers SUPER low!
Bottom line...we dont have a large amount of history for this motor to go on and say "these people all made this....so he is just on a happy dyno" you can compare what hasnt been done to what should or shouldnt happen...
oh, and for the record, on many ecotec motors, people have seen 20-50 whp increases from a good port and polish if they have EVERYTHING else setup and that has been the restriction point, your freeing up the potential from allllllll the other mods youve put on there that are currently starving for air because of a restrictive head.
and btw, no, I added 50whp by adding:
intake, intake mani, tb, shaved cyl head, cams, header, dp, exahust, and a tune (and supporting stuf and a higher readline), which is on par with what people see out of less then that.
ZOOMER. YOUR A FRACKING IDIOT! SINCE NO ONE HAS DONE THIS WE CANT SAY "IT SHOULDNT BE THIS OR THAT"
God your so close minded. Go build one yourself, same exact mods and if it makes a million hp less then ya, we can say...****...eveyrone else with these mods didnt make this why am I?
NO ONE ELSE HAS THIS SETUP>>>end of discussion on that! MAYBE 2-3 other people that are on this board are running stage 2 cams...MAYBE! and none of them have a shaved head, or full bolt ons that I know of and have dynod.
What an EXPERIANCED person does is use the same damed dyno every time because it gives an accurate representation of the changes..and **** THATS ALL DYNO NUMBERS ARE GOOD FOR!!!! Unless we ALLL dyno our cars same day on same dyno, comparing numbers really doesnt mean JACK **** AN DYOU SHOULD KNOW THAT!
so quite bein an ass hat and trying to win an argument that will ONLY be solved when I get a call fromt he dyno shop! and hate to break it to you. This dyno shows a few numbers low on quite a few cars. Buddy had a 2.2 ecotec with the M62 kit, was running low 14's with it and was showing 205whp.
And exactly to what elecblue06 was saying. a full 2+ points of AFR in the rich will make your numbers SUPER low!
Bottom line...we dont have a large amount of history for this motor to go on and say "these people all made this....so he is just on a happy dyno" you can compare what hasnt been done to what should or shouldnt happen...
oh, and for the record, on many ecotec motors, people have seen 20-50 whp increases from a good port and polish if they have EVERYTHING else setup and that has been the restriction point, your freeing up the potential from allllllll the other mods youve put on there that are currently starving for air because of a restrictive head.
and btw, no, I added 50whp by adding:
intake, intake mani, tb, shaved cyl head, cams, header, dp, exahust, and a tune (and supporting stuf and a higher readline), which is on par with what people see out of less then that.
u may think ur god's gift to the n/a world of eco's but i'm sorry my friend. ur not. maybe ur the first one in a cobalt to take an n/a 2.2 this far, but ur not even close to the first person with an l61 to go that far (others have gone waaaaaay further) and still not hit 200whp. what makes u think ur going to be some exception to the rule?
and please, please show me one person who's seen even close to a 50 whp increase on a p+p head with an n/a eco. please. i wanna see it. ur just pulling this **** out of ur ass at this point.
New Member
Joined: 12-05-10
Posts: 59
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From: illinois
Engine:
•Wiseco Pistons 12.1:1 CR
•GM P&P Head 88958619
•Eagle Rods
•Stainless Steel Valves
•Ferrea Dual Valve Springs
•Custom Europe Cams (2009)
•Ford 42lbs Injectors (2008)
•GM Adjustable Gears 88958614
•Custom Alum neutral ballance shafts
•CUSTOM Aluminum "bird catcher" intake (2008)
•CUSTOM 4-1 step header (2008)
•Removed AC Unit and Lines
•Yank 3000 Stall (2009)
•Custom Built Automatic Transmission 4T45e SMG (2009)
•MSD Digital 7 75314
•Accel DFI gen 7 77026 (installed 2009)
•Meziere Water Pump (2009)
here's a mod list for ben wenzel jr. (hope he doesn't mind but it's public info on the .org so he shouldn't). he has way, way more **** done to his l61 than you. n/a l61 and he still hasn't broken the 200 whp mark. 190 or so if i remember correctly.
•Wiseco Pistons 12.1:1 CR
•GM P&P Head 88958619
•Eagle Rods
•Stainless Steel Valves
•Ferrea Dual Valve Springs
•Custom Europe Cams (2009)
•Ford 42lbs Injectors (2008)
•GM Adjustable Gears 88958614
•Custom Alum neutral ballance shafts
•CUSTOM Aluminum "bird catcher" intake (2008)
•CUSTOM 4-1 step header (2008)
•Removed AC Unit and Lines
•Yank 3000 Stall (2009)
•Custom Built Automatic Transmission 4T45e SMG (2009)
•MSD Digital 7 75314
•Accel DFI gen 7 77026 (installed 2009)
•Meziere Water Pump (2009)
here's a mod list for ben wenzel jr. (hope he doesn't mind but it's public info on the .org so he shouldn't). he has way, way more **** done to his l61 than you. n/a l61 and he still hasn't broken the 200 whp mark. 190 or so if i remember correctly.
there is one thing that probly shows a difference, at least it does in the cobalt - an auto, he may have different gearing, or anything, not sure
all im saying is i have a dyno setup, my numbers show its possible, and we will see when i put it on the dyno. You can come up with all the arguments you want about whatever, but if i get on a reliable calibrated dyno and show 200...its still 200, maybe he is ready on a sad dyno, for ***** sake...you all sit around and bitch about happy dynos, well...if thre are more dynos that show good numbers then bad...maybe someone was just on a **** calibrated dyno, who knows.
and "custom europe cams" that doesnt give ANY specific info on what they are, "bird catcher" intake...and why run on MSD? you can go pretty ****** far with this motor without changing that **** out, so was he on an earlier version of this engine? and where at in illinois? because the elevation can have a SEVERE effect on power made.
custom this custom that, for balance shafts, who knows if he got it to max power potential? for all you know he made some "custom parts" that lost him power.
another thing, who is doing the tuning? do they know what they are doing? making most power out of it?
there are a million and one variables in this argument, but at the end of the day, your all just being like the rest of the css sheep herd...its kind of sad how argumentative and unhelpful this forum is in general...99% of the members argue just to argue, oh well i suppose.
all im saying is i have a dyno setup, my numbers show its possible, and we will see when i put it on the dyno. You can come up with all the arguments you want about whatever, but if i get on a reliable calibrated dyno and show 200...its still 200, maybe he is ready on a sad dyno, for ***** sake...you all sit around and bitch about happy dynos, well...if thre are more dynos that show good numbers then bad...maybe someone was just on a **** calibrated dyno, who knows.
and "custom europe cams" that doesnt give ANY specific info on what they are, "bird catcher" intake...and why run on MSD? you can go pretty ****** far with this motor without changing that **** out, so was he on an earlier version of this engine? and where at in illinois? because the elevation can have a SEVERE effect on power made.
custom this custom that, for balance shafts, who knows if he got it to max power potential? for all you know he made some "custom parts" that lost him power.
another thing, who is doing the tuning? do they know what they are doing? making most power out of it?
there are a million and one variables in this argument, but at the end of the day, your all just being like the rest of the css sheep herd...its kind of sad how argumentative and unhelpful this forum is in general...99% of the members argue just to argue, oh well i suppose.
also, he is having to drive power steering (IIRC) and his sd off hs cam..this results in a (alight small) loss in power
alos, having to route the exhaust fromt he front to the rear of teh engine results in more bends and less efficient flow
also, i looked a pic of his engine bay...where is the intake sucking air at? how much tubing to get there? how much heat soak from an intake mani over the exhaust?
alos, having to route the exhaust fromt he front to the rear of teh engine results in more bends and less efficient flow
also, i looked a pic of his engine bay...where is the intake sucking air at? how much tubing to get there? how much heat soak from an intake mani over the exhaust?
Last edited by NWAE Cobalt; Dec 11, 2010 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Joined: 12-05-10
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From: illinois
i guess i will stop my argument here. (although i still want to see a link to anyone who supposedly made anywhere around a 50 whp increase just with a p+p head like you claim) it's honestly like trying to explain the way modifications work to someone with no knowledge whatsoever on the way an engine reacts to mod's. i'll reserve further judgement till dyno day. if you really want to know more about his car look it up on j-body.org you might find some useful info for your own build there as well. there's been a nice spike in n/a eco talk there as of late.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
i guess i will stop my argument here. (although i still want to see a link to anyone who supposedly made anywhere around a 50 whp increase just with a p+p head like you claim) it's honestly like trying to explain the way modifications work to someone with no knowledge whatsoever on the way an engine reacts to mod's. i'll reserve further judgement till dyno day. if you really want to know more about his car look it up on j-body.org you might find some useful info for your own build there as well. there's been a nice spike in n/a eco talk there as of late.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
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Joined: 12-05-10
Posts: 59
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From: illinois
lolz. oke doke buddy. y would that silly race car driver build an intake like that? it's like he has no idea what he's doing!
i'm not arguing just to argue, i'm just letting you know the "full bolt on" mods that you think are so extreme, aren't anywhere close to what others have done and still not seen 200 whp.
but what would i or anyone else know? some dyno shop told u ur cobalt was making mad tyte power! guess everyone else that knows better are just a bunch of fools......
i'm not arguing just to argue, i'm just letting you know the "full bolt on" mods that you think are so extreme, aren't anywhere close to what others have done and still not seen 200 whp.
but what would i or anyone else know? some dyno shop told u ur cobalt was making mad tyte power! guess everyone else that knows better are just a bunch of fools......
and btw, i do know how an engine responds to mods, ive had plenty of different parts on and off this car and other 2.2's...but you can keep thinking your gods gift to predictions 
regardless, they are not arguing that i have a dyno sheet that shows that number, they are just saying its a happy dyno and there is no way my car is making that power
even if i port up a dyno of 200whp, couple of these asshats will just say its a **** dyno lol
even if i port up a dyno of 200whp, couple of these asshats will just say its a **** dyno lol
here is the 180 dyo.
the tq curve and some of the hp curve are the way theye are alot because of the bad AFR
hp and tq drop off because of the exhaust setup I had on there before (good low end, not designed for hi rpm applications)
the tq curve and some of the hp curve are the way theye are alot because of the bad AFR
hp and tq drop off because of the exhaust setup I had on there before (good low end, not designed for hi rpm applications)
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From: Fairfield, CA/Travis AFB, CA
there are 2 words i live by....**** em....lol. if it is a "happy" dyno and you hit 200 then go to another one and see wat that one says. if they show about even then theres no reason people should doubt.
there is one thing that probly shows a difference, at least it does in the cobalt - an auto, he may have different gearing, or anything, not sure
all im saying is i have a dyno setup, my numbers show its possible, and we will see when i put it on the dyno. You can come up with all the arguments you want about whatever, but if i get on a reliable calibrated dyno and show 200...its still 200, maybe he is ready on a sad dyno, for ***** sake...you all sit around and bitch about happy dynos, well...if thre are more dynos that show good numbers then bad...maybe someone was just on a **** calibrated dyno, who knows.
and "custom europe cams" that doesnt give ANY specific info on what they are, "bird catcher" intake...and why run on MSD? you can go pretty ****** far with this motor without changing that **** out, so was he on an earlier version of this engine? and where at in illinois? because the elevation can have a SEVERE effect on power made.
custom this custom that, for balance shafts, who knows if he got it to max power potential? for all you know he made some "custom parts" that lost him power.
another thing, who is doing the tuning? do they know what they are doing? making most power out of it?
there are a million and one variables in this argument, but at the end of the day, your all just being like the rest of the css sheep herd...its kind of sad how argumentative and unhelpful this forum is in general...99% of the members argue just to argue, oh well i suppose.
all im saying is i have a dyno setup, my numbers show its possible, and we will see when i put it on the dyno. You can come up with all the arguments you want about whatever, but if i get on a reliable calibrated dyno and show 200...its still 200, maybe he is ready on a sad dyno, for ***** sake...you all sit around and bitch about happy dynos, well...if thre are more dynos that show good numbers then bad...maybe someone was just on a **** calibrated dyno, who knows.
and "custom europe cams" that doesnt give ANY specific info on what they are, "bird catcher" intake...and why run on MSD? you can go pretty ****** far with this motor without changing that **** out, so was he on an earlier version of this engine? and where at in illinois? because the elevation can have a SEVERE effect on power made.
custom this custom that, for balance shafts, who knows if he got it to max power potential? for all you know he made some "custom parts" that lost him power.
another thing, who is doing the tuning? do they know what they are doing? making most power out of it?
there are a million and one variables in this argument, but at the end of the day, your all just being like the rest of the css sheep herd...its kind of sad how argumentative and unhelpful this forum is in general...99% of the members argue just to argue, oh well i suppose.
also, he is having to drive power steering (IIRC) and his sd off hs cam..this results in a (alight small) loss in power
alos, having to route the exhaust fromt he front to the rear of teh engine results in more bends and less efficient flow
also, i looked a pic of his engine bay...where is the intake sucking air at? how much tubing to get there? how much heat soak from an intake mani over the exhaust?
alos, having to route the exhaust fromt he front to the rear of teh engine results in more bends and less efficient flow
also, i looked a pic of his engine bay...where is the intake sucking air at? how much tubing to get there? how much heat soak from an intake mani over the exhaust?
power steering is a valid argument though
i guess i will stop my argument here. (although i still want to see a link to anyone who supposedly made anywhere around a 50 whp increase just with a p+p head like you claim) it's honestly like trying to explain the way modifications work to someone with no knowledge whatsoever on the way an engine reacts to mod's. i'll reserve further judgement till dyno day. if you really want to know more about his car look it up on j-body.org you might find some useful info for your own build there as well. there's been a nice spike in n/a eco talk there as of late.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
the "bird catcher" that your'e asking about is sucking in air from the front bumper. you can see a pic of it in his profile.
Ive never had issues with you NWAE, and i want you to continue your build because, put plainly, i originally wanted to make my cobalt an NA beast as well, but i feel you are seriously uninformed in the physics of cars and are in extreme denial.
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From: Fairfield, CA/Travis AFB, CA
well assuming that all 2.2s baseline around the same numbers, then wat would the problem be to continue from where he is at right now? i 100% get wat youre sayin around gettin a baseline for HIS specific car tho
I also dont claim my numbers to be certain at all. I wouldnt be surprised in the least to see me putting 235bhp nor 285bhp (well, i feel it would be closer to 235 than 285).
I wanted to put SOME number down, so i just used that one. It makes sense though as well. it was effectively a stg2 LSJ only with higher compression and 10% more displacement, so slightly over stg2 numbers seems accurate.
My issue is he seems so certain that his numbers, which seem quite on the high side to me, are absolutely accurate and that we are all retarded for doubting them and none of us seem to understand how much power his bolt ons/cam gave him, etc.
Im betting if you took a neutral person, NWAEs car, and a bolt on 2.4, and had the neutral person drive both cars, they would not be able to tell which car is the 2.2 and which is the 2.4 based on acceleration. Of course we cant do this because the driver will immediately know which is which once he sees where he's shifting
because while they SHOULD all dyno around the same, iveseen a stock 2.2dyno anywhere from 116hp to 138hp. So while he's seeing 180, he could really be making 158, which is much closer to what i would imagine him getting. I think he has a 170-175whp car personally, buti dont think the mods he's proposing will put him at 200whp like he seems to think. variables in the dynos can do a lot for a car.
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From: illinois
that's the only way to really find out if his previous dyno was a "happy" dyno. which i suspect it was. his answer of course will be well i'm not going to pay for multiple dyno pulls. which honestly, who can blame him? but still i think it will cast doubt on his numbers in the end if a dyno run at another dyno is never done.
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From: Fairfield, CA/Travis AFB, CA
i dont blame him either but im just sayin if he was to so he can prove to the public his numbers. honestly all i can say is about the situation is we're just gonna have to give him the benefit of the doubt or just think on the positive side
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From: illinois
meh, i don't need to. not to be a doubtful person or whatever u want to call me but i don't see y many other people with virtually the same mod list have dynoe'd at such lower number's than he has. it's like other people have said already, you don't gain 50whp with intake exhaust and cams. you just don't.
the only explanation i can come up for that kind of gain is a happy dyno.
the only explanation i can come up for that kind of gain is a happy dyno.
