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2.2L L61 Performance Tech 16 valve 145 hp EcoTec with 155 lb-ft of torque

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Old 02-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #226  
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the only dyno chart i have is the one at the top of the official dyno thread
it was 11.3-12.

like i said, peak tq comes before peak hp. just because you make peak tq at 11.3 doesn't mean you have to keep it there till redline/ peak hp.

find what gives you the best tq, then the best hp, and then transition between the two.

i was rushed last time i ws on the dyno; once it warms up a bit i'm gonna rent it for a whole afternoon and will be able to try several things. that will be on Ignite E98 though.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
I understand that and I apologized.

My results, and those of a few others, have shown best tq in the low 11's. peak tq, as we all know, comes earlier than peak hp. So I run it at 11.3 there and smoothly transition to about 12 at peak hp.

I understand that each platform is different. My point of posting those links is that the average consensus is best tq will be in low 11's. as was mine and Infra's.

By all means, you are free to tune as you see fit.
I'm just offering my opinion.

Again I apologize for coming across that way at first.
there are also LSJ's on here that run mid to high 12's on e85 like 09 said... those other cars don't mean anything in comparison to a delta.. both of my tuners... (vince and 09cobalt) have shown that the car makes MORE power via a leaner AFR. at that rich as you're suggesting running i feel you're leaving a good amount of power on the table for no reason really. even with how 09 has me setup we're still running a decent amount of timing. Honestly idk anyone else on here that would suggest running that rich on e85.. hell most people run 11.5-11.8 on gas for deltas, and e85 is almost always higher number on a gas AFR calibrated wide band
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:37 PM
  #228  
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Why do you guys keep thinking that you have to run the same afr at both peak tq and peak hp...
My research has shown best tq around 11.3... As ive said multiple times. I've said nothing about peak hp. Yet.

If all of this is so true, then why are the top 3 cars on the 2.0 m62 section of the dyno thread running in the mid-high 11's...
I wonder...
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:27 PM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
Why do you guys keep thinking that you have to run the same afr at both peak tq and peak hp...
My research has shown best tq around 11.3... As ive said multiple times. I've said nothing about peak hp. Yet.

If all of this is so true, then why are the top 3 cars on the 2.0 m62 section of the dyno thread running in the mid-high 11's...
I wonder...
No one ever said that you had to run a linear eq ratio, nor did i ever say that I do I just don't fully agree with running an ecotec that fat on e85. I really do wish e85 was more readily available around here so I can really spend some time on the dyno messing with a variety of different ecotec engines to compare some results. As far as lsj's go, all the ones I have tuned thus far have only been on 93 so I have yet to have the chance to get my hands dirty with one running e85 so I'm not completely discrediting you in the least.... I just have a hard time wrapping my head around how much fuel you're using is all.

Like I said, e85 is pretty sparse out here in CT so for my own personal car, I go out of state to get mine and keep it in a 35gal storage tank so I have it available to me whenever. I do of course have quite a few pulls on the dyno with my own car and elecblue06 is fortunate enough to have e85 relatively available in his area so he runs it all the time and I have a dyno graph from his car as well. I don't mean to just start posting graphs in someone else's thread, so I hope the OP doesn't mind, but I'd like to share with you and the op the dyno results for my car and elecblue06's car to show you that you don't have to flood out the engine to make good power with e85..

Here is elecblue06's LE5: bnr2871 @ 15psi, supporting mods, e85.... 323whp/315wtrq

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I haven't had a chance to mess with a much richer afr in his car on the dyno, but the but dyno sure says the leaner mix feels faster.... lol.. Is there more power potential there? Sure, but the power curve looks pretty damn good to me.


My LNF: stock k04 @ 24psi, supporting bolt-ons, e47.... 342whp/378wtrq

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Last edited by 09CobaltSS1; 03-05-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:09 AM
  #230  
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11.3 is not that rich... Honestly, I can't wrap my head around how you think I'm dumping a garden hose on the back of the valves.

Those graphs are nice.

There's v8 roots cars running in the high 10's to get best tq.

As for your car, DI likes it leaner. Anyone with decent tuning sense knows this.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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My car on 11:1 afr looked like diesel out the exhaust.now its 12.5-13:1,not so much.just my $.02.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
11.3 is not that rich... Honestly, I can't wrap my head around how you think I'm dumping a garden hose on the back of the valves.

Those graphs are nice.

There's v8 roots cars running in the high 10's to get best tq.

As for your car, DI likes it leaner. Anyone with decent tuning sense knows this.
lol.. come on man, stop that. Clearly DI runs leaner than PI, but that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. The purpose of me posting my personal graph was to just simply show a relative comparison that working off the thought process of "I like things lean" compared to where you have your tune dialed in for e85 that my power numbers at 13.5-13.1 should probably be suffering and should in fact make quite a bit more at say 12.3-12.5, but it's just not the case from the testing I did with my car. Again, I have not had a chance to mess with an lsj on e85 so you definitely have a leg up on me there. I'm just saying that I would be very curious to compare the power numbers side by of you current eq ratio bumped up a tad from the 11.3-12.0 you're currently running to 12.2-12.5 or so. One thing we both keep overlooking here a bit too is the fact that you're running sc and the 2 dyno graphs I posted are turbo cars. The pe tables are basically opposite of one another for tip in. Where you're richening on boost tip in (relative to the rest of your eq ratio) and leaning out from there, I'm tipping in leaner to lessen a monster torque spike and reaching full enrichment by 4500rpms or so. On elecblue's car in particular I have a lean tip in to also spool the turbo up a little quicker for him as well. One of these days elecblue06 and I will have to get together for a nice long dyno session so I can get some hard numbers as to whether a boosted LE5 likes it that much richer or not. ****, maybe it will really like it but I'd just like to see for myself.

Sorry for all the minor quarreling OP, but it's good to have an open discussions like this sometimes..
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:05 AM
  #233  
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Minor quarreling is ok as long as its informative, and this is somewhat related to op's questions.
I enjoy debating with you. You know your stuff, and are willing to accept the possibility that your way may not be best, but works well so far. That says a lot about you and I hope you take me the same way. I'm not at all claiming my way is perfect, I don't have the proof to back that up yet. And who knows, I may be wrong. I don't think I am, but you never know.

I too would like to spend more time on the dyno to test both of our theories.

Also, I didn't realize elec was turbo. Your setup for him makes more sense to me now.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:44 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by 1LowLS View Post
I told you I run 12.5 earlier.but noooo let's not listen to Steve.he don't know ****.
you told me this like a month ago lol

Originally Posted by 1LowLS View Post
my commanded afr is 6.76 at wot and sits at 11.2-5.

anyways the change has been made and the car feels great so far...couple more adjustments and it should be good to go.

Last edited by IonNinja; 03-01-2013 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:08 AM
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It was like 20 years ago
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:10 AM
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I haz a problem!

Car sounds terrible when driving, sounds kind of like a loose chain slapping around and I don't know what it is. The noise gets louder as RPMs increase.

At first I thought it was the tensioner so I replaced that (needed a new one anyway) and that didn't solve the issue. I pulled the valve cover and timing cover and see no broken guides or valvetrain.

The only thing I've done to the car recently is change the driverside axle (~24hrs prior to the start of this noise). I already pulled the axle and started the car and the sound was still there so I'm lost.

Any ideas?
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:58 AM
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on idling, do you have this sound? when rev up in you parking lot do u heard it?

it may be your axle that you have changed.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by huckernage View Post
on idling, do you have this sound? when rev up in you parking lot do u heard it?

it may be your axle that you have changed.
he said at the end he pulled it out. how is the coupler in the supercharger? i would suspect that coupler or the timing chain tensioner
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:49 AM
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there is still a small noise there at idle but its not really that same "grinding" noise or however you want to describe it

I already started the car with the drivers side axle off and same issue. Also tried a different timing chain tensioner already

It almost sounds like its coming from the trans area but its honestly hard to tell
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:03 AM
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can you tell what side of the car its coming from?
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:50 AM
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Try taking the drive belt off to eliminate and accessory and the sc and run the motor. Might help pinpoint the problem.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:34 AM
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PMed sent about ........... anyway tired to get bad comment about my p300 english writting even about my sexual orientation just try to help a saturian.

i know it is not on this thread but. to this guy that doudt about my sexual orientation: i can meet your mom in alaska to show her how a french canadian is good in bed.................. btw you can show her my picture with maelle ricker. she ll probably melt and want to meet me in quebec...................

good morning

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:58 PM
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Valve guides?
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:44 AM
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lol

Originally Posted by SSfamilywagon View Post
Try taking the drive belt off to eliminate and accessory and the sc and run the motor. Might help pinpoint the problem.
good call

It was alot easier to hear this time, definitely coming from the valvetrain. As Steve said, I think my guides are done and I'm getting some light valve/piston action in one cylinder

So this weekend I'm gonna have to pull the head
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:28 AM
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I've pulled the head and I'm in the process of swapping my valvetrain over to my OEM head.

Well I was pulling off the lash adjusters and this happened:

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Is this salvageable? I can't seem to get the bottom piece out of the head

Last edited by IonNinja; 03-13-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:18 PM
  #246  
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O sincerely wish you luck. That's gonna be tough.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:08 PM
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FML I'm just getting new ones. Working on your car late at night is a bad idea lol
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:11 PM
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Damn Jerry you just can't catch a break at all. Good luck to you sir.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:13 PM
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Yeah story of my life lol....stock head is back on and made 0 difference

I made two videos of the noise its making, maybe you guys have suggestions?


In this video the car is being held at a steady RPM, just FYI
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:33 PM
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Honestly it sounds like a cracked header combine through my iPhone speaker
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