jdbaugh1 official "build" thread
#351
Big learning curve figuring out what kind of connections go to various sensors as well as determining what has a dedicated input on the ECU and what utilizes a generic input. Like the throttle body has two TP sensors. Signal 1 goes to a dedicated pin on the ecu "Default primary Throttle Position sensor input" and signal 2 goes to a generic "0-5V analog signal input". The Accelerator pedal also has two sensors that both go to generic "0-5V analog signal input" as there is no default Accelerator pedal input.
One thing I'm still not sure of is regarding that both APP and TP sensors require separate 5V positive and 0-5V ground power. The AEM pinout information has 2 pins labeled as "Analog 0-5V sensor ground" as well as two "+5V Analog sensor power". These 4 pins split off to supply power to every 5V sensor. Though I'm not sure on this, as far as I can tell you can use any +5V with any 0-5V ground you want but then that raises the question why does both the accelerator pedal and the throttle body require two separate +5V and 0-5V grounds for each individual sensor? If my assumption above is correct I should be able to run both sensors off of the same two pins. Only thing I can figure out, it is either that way for robustness or I am wrong in my assumption. Some of the example diagrams provided, like the one for a BMW E3, shows the MAP sensor and the TPS both tied into a single 0-5V ground pin on the ECU but with each tapped into separate +5V and I can't figure out what the rhyme or reason is. If anyone has any insight on that I would appreciate your feedback.
Ex BMW wire schematic
LS example accelerator pedal and throttle body. LSJ TB is different in that it has 2 additional pins for an additional +5V power and ground.
Pinout sensor ground
Pinout sensor power
One thing I'm still not sure of is regarding that both APP and TP sensors require separate 5V positive and 0-5V ground power. The AEM pinout information has 2 pins labeled as "Analog 0-5V sensor ground" as well as two "+5V Analog sensor power". These 4 pins split off to supply power to every 5V sensor. Though I'm not sure on this, as far as I can tell you can use any +5V with any 0-5V ground you want but then that raises the question why does both the accelerator pedal and the throttle body require two separate +5V and 0-5V grounds for each individual sensor? If my assumption above is correct I should be able to run both sensors off of the same two pins. Only thing I can figure out, it is either that way for robustness or I am wrong in my assumption. Some of the example diagrams provided, like the one for a BMW E3, shows the MAP sensor and the TPS both tied into a single 0-5V ground pin on the ECU but with each tapped into separate +5V and I can't figure out what the rhyme or reason is. If anyone has any insight on that I would appreciate your feedback.
Ex BMW wire schematic
LS example accelerator pedal and throttle body. LSJ TB is different in that it has 2 additional pins for an additional +5V power and ground.
Pinout sensor ground
Pinout sensor power
#352
Senior Member
Big learning curve figuring out what kind of connections go to various sensors as well as determining what has a dedicated input on the ECU and what utilizes a generic input. Like the throttle body has two TP sensors. Signal 1 goes to a dedicated pin on the ecu "Default primary Throttle Position sensor input" and signal 2 goes to a generic "0-5V analog signal input". The Accelerator pedal also has two sensors that both go to generic "0-5V analog signal input" as there is no default Accelerator pedal input.
One thing I'm still not sure of is regarding that both APP and TP sensors require separate 5V positive and 0-5V ground power. The AEM pinout information has 2 pins labeled as "Analog 0-5V sensor ground" as well as two "+5V Analog sensor power". These 4 pins split off to supply power to every 5V sensor. Though I'm not sure on this, as far as I can tell you can use any +5V with any 0-5V ground you want but then that raises the question why does both the accelerator pedal and the throttle body require two separate +5V and 0-5V grounds for each individual sensor? If my assumption above is correct I should be able to run both sensors off of the same two pins. Only thing I can figure out, it is either that way for robustness or I am wrong in my assumption. Some of the example diagrams provided, like the one for a BMW E3, shows the MAP sensor and the TPS both tied into a single 0-5V ground pin on the ECU but with each tapped into separate +5V and I can't figure out what the rhyme or reason is. If anyone has any insight on that I would appreciate your feedback.
One thing I'm still not sure of is regarding that both APP and TP sensors require separate 5V positive and 0-5V ground power. The AEM pinout information has 2 pins labeled as "Analog 0-5V sensor ground" as well as two "+5V Analog sensor power". These 4 pins split off to supply power to every 5V sensor. Though I'm not sure on this, as far as I can tell you can use any +5V with any 0-5V ground you want but then that raises the question why does both the accelerator pedal and the throttle body require two separate +5V and 0-5V grounds for each individual sensor? If my assumption above is correct I should be able to run both sensors off of the same two pins. Only thing I can figure out, it is either that way for robustness or I am wrong in my assumption. Some of the example diagrams provided, like the one for a BMW E3, shows the MAP sensor and the TPS both tied into a single 0-5V ground pin on the ECU but with each tapped into separate +5V and I can't figure out what the rhyme or reason is. If anyone has any insight on that I would appreciate your feedback.
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jdbaugh1 (03-05-2019)
#355
Senior Member
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Kolt (03-05-2019)
#359
Senior Member
Definitely making really good progress so far. I would love setting up a standalone system but the tuning would be a issue for me.
#360
I don't know how to tune either. We'll cross that bridge when we get there but I am hoping Trevor will help me get started at the very least and if he has time may figure out a way to have him help me dial it in. He's been helping as well answering some questions for me here and there.
#361
Senior Member
If you put the 5v analog grounds on the chassis, there could be a ground offset and/or noise between the chassis and the ECM. If the 5V and it's low reference ("ground") are indeed electrically isolated, you would for sure have major problems if you don't use the dedicated 5v low reference. I would think the analog grounds would be connected internally though, maybe they have the pins available and preferred to avoid splicing the analog grounds together.
#363
If you put the 5v analog grounds on the chassis, there could be a ground offset and/or noise between the chassis and the ECM. If the 5V and it's low reference ("ground") are indeed electrically isolated, you would for sure have major problems if you don't use the dedicated 5v low reference. I would think the analog grounds would be connected internally though, maybe they have the pins available and preferred to avoid splicing the analog grounds together.
#364
Senior Member
#365
Senior Member
- Changing carb jetting is synonymous with changing the injector open time (pulse width)
- Twisting the distributor and playing with weights is synonymous with typing in the actual degrees of advance in a load vs. rpm table
The fundamental challenge is learning a new language that is incrementally more complex than the language of carburetors. Going stand alone adds another incremental layer of complexity because of the old saying, "Garbage In, Garbage Out", you need to get the inputs and outputs right before getting into adjusting numbers in table.
- Twisting the distributor and playing with weights is synonymous with typing in the actual degrees of advance in a load vs. rpm table
The fundamental challenge is learning a new language that is incrementally more complex than the language of carburetors. Going stand alone adds another incremental layer of complexity because of the old saying, "Garbage In, Garbage Out", you need to get the inputs and outputs right before getting into adjusting numbers in table.
#366
Senior Member
I understand what all the parameters stand for and understand the tables. Its the hundreds of actual fine adjustments that I'm not proficient on. Carb and distributor tuning is easy and very linear, looking at tuning tables isn't
#367
Senior Member
Here is a VE table showing AFR errors in actual percentages. In HPT, you could copy the whole matrix, then in the matching calibration table you right-click and 'multiply by percentage' [divided by 2 when you get close]. If you go mass air flow, it is literally 1 row of numbers to adjust. MAF measure air flow, VE makes educated guesses of air flow
Image taken from here: http://www.vegasvettes.com/TechTips/...FI%20Class.pdf
#368
Once you understand what controls what it gets much simpler but the problem comes when they change the software style on you like going from gen 4 to gen 5 controllers. All the new stuff is basically greek to me. Gen3/4 stuff is easy though. Standalone controllers simplify/unify everything so its much easier to understand than the factory controller which is really only meant to be used for emissions control.
#369
Senior Member
Once you understand what controls what it gets much simpler but the problem comes when they change the software style on you like going from gen 4 to gen 5 controllers. All the new stuff is basically greek to me. Gen3/4 stuff is easy though. Standalone controllers simplify/unify everything so its much easier to understand than the factory controller which is really only meant to be used for emissions control.
Haltech confirmed they can do Ecotec VVT with the elite 1500, was looking at Link but they never got back to me on the Ecotec VVT control. Just need to come up with that $1700
#370
To your point: I am running the E67, it has been maxed out when it was on it's old setup. I tricked it to work with 80 lb injectors, I have yet to figure out how to trick it to expand the range of the timing table, right now timing for 25 psi boost is good, but those numbers suck horrible for boost levels below it where it's not knock limited. Then things like no lift shift don't work, have to use an external boost controller, very limited engine protection, can't switch timing tables on the fly, no ability to drive a secondary throttle body (twincharger stuff), etc.
Haltech confirmed they can do Ecotec VVT with the elite 1500, was looking at Link but they never got back to me on the Ecotec VVT control. Just need to come up with that $1700
Haltech confirmed they can do Ecotec VVT with the elite 1500, was looking at Link but they never got back to me on the Ecotec VVT control. Just need to come up with that $1700
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steelmesh (03-06-2019)
#374
Senior Member