wouldn't that be a factor of the tune?

you're just enlarging the orafice which allows air to enter the engine - much like putting a larger carburetor on an older V8 car - if it's not set up just right it will be very touchy at tip in, but properly set up, and it should function perfectly...

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. An LS4 is more of a finicky throttle body than stock. It's super bad not properly tuned.

 

Opening LS4 tb the same amount as the stock tb will let in way more air from the increased size. I've been in the car and Taylor has it set up really well

 

it is very touchy even when it is tuned properly, i barely even use my gas pedal during in city driving. combined with a small high spinning blower results in instant pedal reaction. the only way you would understand is to drive the car jonathan, my car isnt even close to stock anymore thus it feels completely different. believe me the tune in my car is very solid and done extremely well. even my afr was dataloged and recorded, and is perfect.

believe me when i say you can not compare trifecta to someone who knows his shyt with HPT. HPT will win hands down every time.

 

I'm pretty sure that this quote says ALOT as far as the LS4 TB;

even if the same TPS is used, the tune would absolutly be scaled different for more cfm entering into the engine from the same percentage open that the TPS sees - that's precisely what I was meaning.

You cannot convince me that Trifecta is inferior the HPT in this regaurd - it comes down to the tuner, not the softwares limitations.
I have never asserted that everyone would be happy with a Trifecta tune, but they (be it Vince or one of the guys at WOT-Tuning) offer a degree of expertise in tuning that isn't easy to come by - and that expertise comes with an unwritten confidence that your tune won't cause a catastrophic failure...

HPT and Trifecta are simply two different way of getting to the same end;

Trifecta (Vince) made his own software and cracked tunes which in some regaurds gives him an edge over HPT, and in doing so he doesn't have to worry about licensing stuff.

They are both programs created with the intent of putting a non-OEM tune on a vehicle, and in both scenarios, there HAS TO BE someone behind a computer making the modifications;
HPT has an edge on Trifecta for being to a degree share-ware, and a community of tuners can all learn with each other, and help each other out.
Trifecta has an edge on HPT by offering tunes for vehicles/engines before HPT supports it, and offers features (eg: dual tune) that HPT doesn't.

 

If you actually research Jon you will find out that an LS4 on a SC set up definitely affects drivability. Tuned properly it's not extreme. But not identical to stock.

Trifecta most definitey has software limitations compared to HPT when it comes to an LSJ. One of the biggest faults is Trifecta can't read AFR on an LSJ. LNF, different story.

 

/\ So Infrared is wrong?
Because it reads from his post like it can be scaled well;
It's probably something that just takes time, and you need to physically be there to 100% nail down.

LSJ not reading AFR I believe is a limitation of the ECM, not the tuning software;
Now I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall hearing that the LSJ ECM actually reads AFR - while the LNF does (which is why my RPD can display AFR).

Vince was telling me some time ago, that essentially where people like you or Infrared can tune for lets say AFR or EGT, you are sitting there visually seeing and or recording readings from aftermarket gauges that the ecm doesn't see - and that is what allows you to more precisely nail down a tune;
This is a limitation of remote tuning - especially remote tuning with only ecm recordings.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Mark has an M62 car and Taylor has a HUGE snail under there. Which one do you think will have a better throttle response around 2k??

HPT can remote tune with AFR when a pro unit is used and you log from an aftermarket gauge we did this with Mark's car when Taylor tuned it. I believe it has 4 inputs so you can also add EGT, meth flow or whatever you would like to datalog

 

Exactly. If the software was just as good I would be able to hook in my data log off my wideband while logging so Vince could see what's going on.

 

i am sure kevin and i would love to get you up to speed someday about hpt. whether you want to believe it or not jonathan this is what happened when we tuned this car. afr was datalogged and is set absolutely perfect. i have said it once i will say it again, taylor gained me a full second in 75 to 100 mph times over trifecta. this is a significant difference, my afr also doesnt jump between 10 and 15 like it use to. it runs smooth and mean so dont be too confident on how fast you think my car is. it is a whole new animal from the last you seen it.

yes one last thing, my gas pedal is a light switch and i love it that way. common sense would show you that a high spinning small blower with a extremely large TB would be very touchy. think about how fast i would start to make at least 10 lbs of boost, it is well before 2000 rpm. i think it is around 1500 rpm, it just happens to fast to get a good read.

 

Technically that's better hardware

 

 

yayayayaya lnf superiority, blah blah blah. coughcoughhorseshytcoughcough



you all wonder why this lsj owner is very vocal on sticking up for himself. in the hearts and minds of all lnf owners feel they are superior.

i could run a 10 gph nozzle of meth and a 50 shot and every stock lnf thinks they will destroy me without running a race. why? coz lnf!

 

Comparing a stock lnf to a modified lsj is like comparing a big block to a stock Honda and saying that they get butthurt because they think they are better. Everyone will think that the vehicle they choose to modify is better than most because its what they like. Everyone hasthier own views on things.

I'm thinking I should do my head swap this spring now. Just need to order a couple more things now lol

 

i didnt compare anything, i only said they would still think they are more superior. tell me i am wrong. go for it.


yes you need to do the head.


are you coming by today?

 

I do believe that Vince has the full ability to tune a car to make as much power as someone with HPT, but he does a lot of tunes and would have to take the time on each one to really dial them in for the last bit of power. I have no doubts that he is able. However, he does tend to leave things conservative, which is probably what the majority of people want, so it works great for him and the end user. I think that is the main difference. It isn't a "canned" or "over the shelf" tune, but it usually isn't dialed in or pushed to the degree of someone spending some serious time with HPT. They both work great for what you want to get out of the car.

And yes, Mark's LS4 could be softened up a bit more too, but my car will naturally have less throttle response than his on quick transient throttle conditions. Hell, you can make a stock TB way touchier than an LS4 if you want to.

 

Man my company is cutting everything and everyone lol.

We have lost 10/50 employees, red deer shut down and is moving their one crew up here, a bunch of managers got let go as well.

Not looking good for after break up. I'm amazed I'm still working.

Heading to Tulsa, Oklahoma on April 4th for 6 weeks of training.

 

I told you not to work for schlumbergay lol

I'm still at work mark

 

i must have miss counted the weeks then hahaha, come by when you get back then.

i happen to like my throttle being touchy taylor. some how it keeps me out trouble more. i know its a mental thing.

 

/\ /\ this and Jon's comment nailed it.

I am not going to assert that one program is better than the other;
One is more hands on, while the other is hands off;
It's like saying apples are better than oranges ect.

It sure doesn't help that we're comparing two different generation ECMs;
and the newer one can read more.

Do you guys know that Vince used to use his program, with special arrangement, at the dyno to tune first hand right there?

I doubt he does ot any more though.

From some of the comments, it reads as though you guys think I'm somewhat uninformed;
I assure you, I am not.



Sorry to hear of your employer Jordan;
Fear spreads like wildfire, the media gloms onto something and makes it bigger than it needs to be;
and employers reduce risk...
Sorry it just seems like I'm starting to observe some eb & flow with the economy...
I hope you avoid any pink slip.

 

How did this tuning conversation get to be about LNF guys feel superior?? I don't know where this came from

 

Oh just to throw this in there, I log AFR on my LSJ and I don't have HPT Pro

 

My buddy Kevin was doing that before there even was an HPT Pro haha. It a good trick.

 

Yep super easy to do. Helps on those 30 psi pulls when you don't wanna watch the wideband lol

 

This is an attitude that Mark has dealt with apparently alot;
I have seen a little of it...

Mark knows that he's in good company here though.