Drivetrain Transmission, LSD, Clutch, Driveline, Axles...

FINALLY an option for us f35 guys. READ!

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Old Sep 12, 2012 | 08:11 PM
  #551  
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Take er easy mezz. Oh btw I have your old trans haha Should be up and running in a month cars in pieces right now
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 03:49 PM
  #552  
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Mike hates cobalts with a passion now!!! Lol
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 04:13 PM
  #553  
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He won't when mine's done and I'm going tens on the stock block
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 04:51 PM
  #554  
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Nice what Turbo are u running?
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 04:58 PM
  #555  
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Originally Posted by terry11
He won't when mine's done and I'm going tens on the stock block
I don't hate cobalts, just the lack of aftermarket. I genuinely do hope it all works out for you and the car ends up being a killer.
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 05:06 PM
  #556  
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Originally Posted by INFE
Eh my cobalt is just alittle faster then your slow car! Well when it runs lol
Yes faster when loaded up in 4th gear. First and second it's slower, third is even. The problem is after 4 nice hard pulls/races the tranny takes a ****. My 100000+ miles old ass vette keeps on ticking. I hope they don't end up making these gearsets, that way you end up with an e85 427.
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Old Sep 13, 2012 | 09:39 PM
  #557  
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Originally Posted by mezzanno
I don't hate cobalts, just the lack of aftermarket. I genuinely do hope it all works out for you and the car ends up being a killer.
Thanks man I do too. This is probably my last shot if it doesn't work out with the 4t45 i might let the old girl go. Or de-tune like crazy and use it for a DD

I've always wanted to build an s2000

Originally Posted by INFE
Nice what Turbo are u running?
5557 precision billet wheel for now. Until I can get my hands on an efr7670

Last edited by terry11; Sep 13, 2012 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old Sep 14, 2012 | 07:35 AM
  #558  
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Originally Posted by mezzanno
Yes faster when loaded up in 4th gear. First and second it's slower, third is even. The problem is after 4 nice hard pulls/races the tranny takes a ****. My 100000+ miles old ass vette keeps on ticking. I hope they don't end up making these gearsets, that way you end up with an e85 427.
Eh that's because of the lack of traction in 2nd. I bet after the nbs and reving to 8100 with a f23 trans it will be a different race the 427 e85 will happen just not today..... oh and I'm out of God damn fuel again might pick up a second 340 pump
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Old Sep 14, 2012 | 02:29 PM
  #559  
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Originally Posted by terry11
Thanks man I do too. This is probably my last shot if it doesn't work out with the 4t45 i might let the old girl go. Or de-tune like crazy and use it for a DD

I've always wanted to build an s2000



5557 precision billet wheel for now. Until I can get my hands on an efr7670
nice man im using a 5857 precision billet wheel now. i hope this works out but evryone on this forum is a bunch of cheap asses lol i may have to look into other options might do a auto swap idk
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 02:07 AM
  #560  
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I'm literally in the process right now. I feel like the test dummy for everything lol I'll let you know soon enough how it holds the ponies
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 02:48 AM
  #561  
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what are u doing?
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 04:32 PM
  #562  
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Gunther Schmidt up here runs an emco sequential gear box in his Cobalt. Pony up the bux you can have one too.

CORRECTION. Wrong information. It is an F35 with close ratio 3,4,5 from Emco.With a 3.86 and 20 psi runs 143.00 mph up the back straight at Mosport. Race Z06 run around 150-160, my Redline runs 130.00 mph on 4.45

Last edited by Powell Race Parts; Sep 17, 2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 04:43 PM
  #563  
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how much is that?
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 06:03 PM
  #564  
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about 25 thousand dollars
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 06:05 PM
  #565  
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Originally Posted by Powell Race Parts
about 25 thousand dollars
oh **** lol
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 08:25 PM
  #566  
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I put a holinger seq. trans in a z06 for a customer's track /race vette. Normally we replace the tremec in these cars twice a year for serious racing, costs about 5k for a complete rebuild each time.

5 years later the holinger is working fine, didnt even replace the dog rings yet. 45,000.00 installed.
Holinger makes the spec. seq. trans for the Australian v8 supercar series.


its all a question of economics...
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 09:54 PM
  #567  
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Originally Posted by Powell Race Parts
I put a holinger seq. trans in a z06 for a customer's track /race vette. Normally we replace the tremec in these cars twice a year for serious racing, costs about 5k for a complete rebuild each time.

5 years later the holinger is working fine, didnt even replace the dog rings yet. 45,000.00 installed.
Holinger makes the spec. seq. trans for the Australian v8 supercar series.


its all a question of economics...
Yep Cash talks John
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 10:45 PM
  #568  
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Holy ****! $45k for a tranny.... better be an 8 second Cobalt then :P


Back on topic.. $1650 for these gears.. and I ain't goin back to read 23 pages so.. is it just 2 gears being replaced and I assume we have to send our trannies in to get done?
For you few guys who need a few more to make this happen, since the ZFR's have been released, you might get this list filled yet... in a couple of months, I might be able to go in with y'all if it's still available. Sounds like it's the best option for big power.
When the list is finally filled, does he need all the cash up front, or just a deposit of say $500? Just asking since it'd be quicker to fill then... maybe, and then I'd go in sooner as well.

Last edited by Knightwolf; Sep 15, 2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 11:11 PM
  #569  
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1650 total for 3rd and 4th gear. If u want to send ur trans to him he will charge 250 to install.

We need 10 guys to front 1000 each if we get more guys then he might knock 250 off
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 11:32 PM
  #570  
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I will keep this in mind.. I plan on getting the ZFR within the next couple of weeks depending on whether I can get an HpT Pro or not with it with the funds that I currently have. After this, I might be single and will need at least a month to get another grand to go in on the deposit for the gears. Just saying....
I'd really rather not break and then be stuck having to fix it when I can do it right the first time
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Old Sep 15, 2012 | 11:51 PM
  #571  
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Ya I have quite the built and my stock trans will not last
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Old Sep 16, 2012 | 02:21 AM
  #572  
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Really want these gears but if nothing gets done soon, I will probably be contacting Shep about a full on Dog Box. They have built a bunch for DSMs and that would be the route to go in the end for me.
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Old Sep 16, 2012 | 08:53 AM
  #573  
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What is a dog box?

And i Will also be joining in on this bit won't have te funds
For at least 2 months
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Old Sep 16, 2012 | 03:23 PM
  #574  
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Information about the Dog Box built for the Mitsu guys:

Magnus DOG BOX transmission FAQ
Here ya go:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/article_dogmission.asp

The Magnus Dogmission

DSM’s are notoriously hard on transmissions. They have been known to take quite a bit of abuse, far more than they have been designed for. As for being indestructible; they are far from it. Anyone who drives a modified DSM will tell you, you have to be gentle with the transmission and let the power do the work.

Enter the Magnus Race Program.

We had come to a point where there was plenty of power but we could never get it to the ground properly. 1st gear was too short, synchro’s would always have to be replaced and 4th gear would constantly shatter. The cost of transmissions was taking its toll.Some time in 2001 we went to the drawing



board and set out to see if we could fit a dog engagement gearset into a Stock DSM case and do it at an affordable price. In the same gearset we would also need the capability to withstand over 800ftlbs of tq.

Three 3 years later.

Extensive research and testing has brought us, to introduce for sale to the public, the Magnus Dogmission.

The Magnus gearset is completely new featuring all new gear ratios and designed by racers for racers. The Dogmission is made out of a superior material over the factory box and is designed to take all of the punishment we could put it through. Every piece is proprietary, by Mitsubishi guys, for MKitsubishi guys.









Q. What transmission case does the Magnus gearset fit into?
A. The gearset will fit all AWD DSM transmission cases from 1989 to 1999. If you own a FWD we can modify an AWD case to accept this gearset. For FWD owners we can also provide you with a choice of three different final drive ratios depending on the tire size you wish to run.
The gearset slides into a 1st gen or 2nd gen AWD case with little modification. All you have to do is remove the 5th gear synchro brake and shave down the outside cover. The center differential is replaced by a spool, which reduces cost and provides a 50/50 tq transfer for AWD. Excellent for drag racing. If you want to run a 4 spider differential, or an aftermarket differential, Magnus can custom adapt your existing center differential to fit.




Q. Can I just use one or two gears out of the Magnus gearset in my DSM tranny?
A. No you can't use just 3rd and 4th for instance. The material is one of the weak points of the Mitsubishi transmission so teaming up good gears with weak gears is just not worth it. You would find the Mitsubishi gears would break and ruin up your good gears.




Q. How much power can The Magnus Dogmission handle?
A. The Gears were designed to withstand 1000 ft lbs of tq. We have however tested it up to 700ftlbs in our racecar.




Q. What are the gear ratios?
A. Gear ratio's are as follows:

The first number is the actual gear ratio.
The second number is max mph @ 9000RPM on a 24.5" diameter tire.
The third number is max mph @ 9000RPM on a 26" tire. We calculated it using these numbers because these are the most popular tire sizes for slicks. Radials for the stock DSM are somewhere in between around 25”.


1st 2.429 57.2 mph 60.7 mph
2nd 1.579 87.9 mph 93.3 mph
3rd 1.174 118.2 mph 125.5 mph
4th 0.885 156.9 mph 166.5 mph
5th 0.690 201.3 mph 213.6 mph

Final Drive (stock) 3.8667

We are not factoring tire growth of 2" diameter usually by 120mph (on slicks) this means that theoretically you can take it past 170mph in 4th gear. This means one less shift in the quarter mile, and you don’t have to run your engine to dangerously high RPM levels.

The Ratio's were chosen as a best all around ratio for both different tire sizes and in between tire sizes (radials). These ratios also allowed us to use the strongest possible gear and tooth profiles. The best possible all around choice.




Q. Is a longer first gear bad for my launch?
A. No, actually a longer first gear is very desirable. It allows you to attain a higher speed and keep that momentum when shifting. Most factory transmissions are designed for the old school 0-60mph or 0-100kmh sprint test. This just happens to be an industry standard that is used as a marketing point when selling new cars. You will notice that most cars will reach 60 mph by the end of 2nd gear. By throwing out this practice and choosing our own ratios we can hold it in 1st gear longer which will provide a better launch and help you attain better quarter mile times.




Q. How fast can I shift it?
A. You can shift it as fast as you want and as hard as you want, but you MUST shift with authority. you cannot wimp out as with a synchro set. Driving a car with a crashbox (as dog engagement transmissions are sometimes called) really makes you feel alive! It is the purest sports car driving experience. You may use the clutch or ignition interrupt to shift. You may also or lift off the gas or gently touch the clutch, it is your choice. Because we back cut the dogs, there must be a momentary release of power to shift. This is so the transmission will stay in gear when you remove your hand from the shifter. This makes it suitable for roadrace, and road use.




Q. Is it good for the street and does it wear differently?
A. You can be soft on the shifts by using the clutch, but you still must shift fairly quickly. We also use a very thick oil that softness up the shifts dramatically. The oil is made by MOTUL for dogboxes.

Rest assured if you shift it fast hard and with conviction IT WILL GO INTO GEAR NO MATTER WHAT.

On the other hand, shifting like a sissy and missing the gear will cause the most wear, you must be firm and direct. If you shift slow as with a synchromesh box the dogs will not engage fully and they will start to chatter against each other. This is the only time you will start to see excessive wear. Basically premature wear is caused by misuse. If this happens to you quite often and it is time to service the box, the rings and gears can be sent to us for re-cutting, which will save you money, in place of having to replace the whole piece as with a current synchromesh transmission. Mind you it is not as delicate as a synchromesh. It will take a lot of missed gears to wear out the dogs. Whereas on a standard DSM box, miss the gear once and you may as well throw the gear, synchro and sleeve away.

One of our pre-production test boxes had over 200 passes on it. While we would normally turn a stock box to mush after 20 passes on last years 750hp 2.4 motor.



Q. How much faster will the Dogbox make my car?
A. Every time we have switched to a dogbox we have been able to knock .5 seconds off our quarter mile time from the shifting, they last longer before tear downs, and are eventually cheaper in the long run. Expand that over how many times you shift in a roadrace car or rally car and you can see why a dog box can be so beneficial to times.




Q. Do I have to match revs to downshift?
A. No just shift the lever in to the next lowest gear to down shift. Driving a Dogbox really wakes you up. The driving experience can be harkened to driving a real sports car, not something that anyone's mother could drive. Downshifting is great, just slow down and slam the lever, it’s in. Up shifting in corners gives a whole new meaning to 4 wheel drift. Just imagine slamming the next gear going from second to third in a constant power slide, no interruption in power, no weird/pitch/roll and dive conditions from having to clutch in, shift, release.




Q. Aren’t helical gears stronger than straight cut gears?
A. Yes and no. Manufacturing parts or making parts that will work together is all about compromises. Although it is true that helical gears contact 1 1/2 teeth making them stronger for the selected pitch, it puts thrust loads on the case (left to right) which is not what the factory case was designed for. It is much stronger in a radially (up down). Straight cut is the way you want to go to take the left/right loads off of the box.
Instead of using helical, and because we are using a better material to begin with, you can now get a beefier, stronger pitch in a straight cut gear within the same transmission case dimensions. This will take far more load than a smaller pitch helical gear, which is limited to having rather small teeth in comparison in order to be effective. Basically starting from a clean sheet of paper with a whole new concept we were able to achieve what we were looking for.

Helical gears are used for quietness, just like synchromesh transmissions. I, as many of you also probably did as well; used to sidestep the clutch back in the day. Bad idea. Not so bad when the car was stock, but very bad after we started making a bit of power. You should never sidestep, or drop the clutch if you appreciate your wallet. Now that am wiser, I know this. We would actually send shafts through the transmission casings, and if we didn’t we would totally demolish the bearings. Three transmissions in one weekend and I soon changed my driving style. They used to say I could break transmissions by looking at them. Not the best moniker to have.

The straight cut gears, on the other hand, are far better at withstanding this kind of abuse. Had we had this transmission then, I could have saved a lot of money.




Q. I heard straight cut gears whine, is this true?
A. If you have ever heard the reverse gear or some older Ferrari’s, you will recognize the unmistakable sound. The reverse gear on all factory transmissions is straight cut.

At first we anticipated the gearset to be loud. But after it was completed and we had gone for our first test runs, we were pleasantly surprised. After we put the gearset in the street car we realized that they were not as noisy as we thought they were going to be at all. They do whine, but not as loud as we had originally thought they would be. We thought that it would sound like a Ferrari. But it's a bit less exotic. After some daily driving I sometimes forget it’s there.




Q. Does it wear out more if I shift without the clutch?
A. With or without the clutch it doesn't seem to wear any different. Because the dogs are back cut they have a longer service life than a standard straight cut dog as in motorcycle transmissions. We have also made the dogs taller than other dogboxes we've seen and tested on the market. This does two things, more contact area (strength) and also takes longer to wear a big radius into the corner, which translates into more time between having to service it.









We recommend changing the oil quite frequently on a dog engagement box, depending on how much shifting you do. We suggest changing out the gear oil every 1500 miles for fresh oil, this will keep your bearings very happy. You will see some particles in the oil after every oil change, this is the nature of the transmission, and is commonplace. This is the reason we suggest changing the oil frequently.
When designing the gearset we wished to have it use as many OEM parts as possible, with as little modifications possible to the existing parts. We were able to keep first gear long enough and still keep the factory reverse arm intact. Not having to grind the reverse lever like other boxes ensures reliability. Also the stock rails and stock forks have been adequate when used with our transmission. If you use good quality new OEM forks you should see a 2 year racing service life on the factory aluminum forks.

No viscous is needed anymore, and the transfer case output shaft is retained by roll pins in the spool. Less rotating mass means better shifting and less inertia.

Installation should be done by a professional. The Magnus Gearset will soon be available for sale and install from Pro transmission shops in your area. Any other inquiries can be made directly to our email, but of course we prefer phone calls to be better able to answer your questions.
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Old Sep 17, 2012 | 11:15 AM
  #575  
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From: Port Perry
UPDATE Gunther Schmidt up here runs an emco sequential gear box in his Cobalt. Pony up the bux you can have one too.

CORRECTION. Wrong information. It is an F35 with close ratio 3,4,5 from Emco.With a 3.86 and 20 psi runs 143.00 mph up the back straight at Mosport. Race Z06 run around 150-160, my Redline runs 130.00 mph on 4.45
the first three sets of 3 close ratio gears including dev. costs ran 18,000.00/ so 2k a gear set. Installation extra...

Last edited by Powell Race Parts; Sep 17, 2012 at 11:46 AM.
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