For discussion of all things Powell!!
05-04-2013, 02:59 PM
#228
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before but do Powell's control arm bushings have a larger amount of metal in them compared to the stock bushings? I ask because the class I run for Autox says replacement bushings can't have a higher ratio of metal to non metal than the stock bushings(unless I'm wrong in understanding control arm bushings fall under the suspension bushings category).
Rule excerpt below:
"B. Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materi-
als (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset
bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing, the amount of
metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be in-
creased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (e.g.,
ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of a bushing
with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of the original
bushing. If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may be used to
prevent the rotation of alternate bushings but may serve no other
purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired position."
Rule excerpt below:
"B. Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materi-
als (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset
bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing, the amount of
metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be in-
creased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (e.g.,
ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of a bushing
with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of the original
bushing. If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may be used to
prevent the rotation of alternate bushings but may serve no other
purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired position."
05-04-2013, 07:45 PM
#229
Rules specifically say you can't change to a spherical bushing.
If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts.
If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts.
05-04-2013, 08:03 PM
#230
Super Moderator
Platinum Member
iTrader: (16)
I love my xxx bar. For people who say its too much for the street, you need to grow a set of Grande juevos. Accompanied with my harness bar it stiffens the car up so much
05-04-2013, 11:24 PM
#231
Sometimes I get asked about front bars. The Cobalt really doesnt need more than the FE5 turbo bar which is 24.0mm although I have seen 24.5 mm.
But what does happen, as the rest of the suspension is improved, is the bar moves out one side or the other. The stock bar does have plastic retainers that are moulded onto the bar, but they travel, as they are not very robust. Once the bar travels out of position the drop links work out of position and the bar becomes less effective.
Running our spherical cabs, and Powergridinc.com adjustable drop links, the bar is working more effectively. The stock pillow blocks are very good; that said, Redlines and Cobalts 05 to 06 maybe some 07, have a single tab and bolt fixing which is awful. So upgrading to the 2 bolt fixing is recommended. No need for (silly) poly bushings the stock bushing and metal retainer is every good.
But to stop the bar travel you need my latest tweak; sway bar clamp stops, I am hoping these when we get organised next week will sell for under 50 dollars a set, if you buy cabs then you can combine shipping...
In the second picture if you look closely you can see where the plastic collar had moved to and the witness marks that show when I removed it.
pretty simple really.
FE3 bars are smaller and the problem is worse as the retaining plastic collars are much smaller than the FE5 bars... I guess no one cared about the poor LS/LT cars, but the arms sure wear out....It is conceivable that the bar could travel far enough to one side during continued track use to actually run into the control arm.
Also I did install these today with the subframe out of the car, but they are totally capable of being installed in the car.
You have to chisel the plastic bushing off, and use an allen key on the collars, which is a little slow to do; the allen heads have to face upwards otherwise there is a risk the stops will contact the cradle in swaybar rotation.
But what does happen, as the rest of the suspension is improved, is the bar moves out one side or the other. The stock bar does have plastic retainers that are moulded onto the bar, but they travel, as they are not very robust. Once the bar travels out of position the drop links work out of position and the bar becomes less effective.
Running our spherical cabs, and Powergridinc.com adjustable drop links, the bar is working more effectively. The stock pillow blocks are very good; that said, Redlines and Cobalts 05 to 06 maybe some 07, have a single tab and bolt fixing which is awful. So upgrading to the 2 bolt fixing is recommended. No need for (silly) poly bushings the stock bushing and metal retainer is every good.
But to stop the bar travel you need my latest tweak; sway bar clamp stops, I am hoping these when we get organised next week will sell for under 50 dollars a set, if you buy cabs then you can combine shipping...
In the second picture if you look closely you can see where the plastic collar had moved to and the witness marks that show when I removed it.
pretty simple really.
FE3 bars are smaller and the problem is worse as the retaining plastic collars are much smaller than the FE5 bars... I guess no one cared about the poor LS/LT cars, but the arms sure wear out....It is conceivable that the bar could travel far enough to one side during continued track use to actually run into the control arm.
Also I did install these today with the subframe out of the car, but they are totally capable of being installed in the car.
You have to chisel the plastic bushing off, and use an allen key on the collars, which is a little slow to do; the allen heads have to face upwards otherwise there is a risk the stops will contact the cradle in swaybar rotation.
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; 05-04-2013 at 11:36 PM.
05-04-2013, 11:38 PM
#232
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Join Date: 06-13-11
Location: Valley Center, CA
Posts: 9
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Rules specifically say you can't change to a spherical bushing.
If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts.
If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via
compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing
may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in
bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar compo-
nent involving internal moving parts.
05-04-2013, 11:56 PM
#234
05-05-2013, 12:03 AM
#235
Its actually brand new I exchanged it so I could look at his old one to see the condition, and send him a new one with revised location brackets. The system was A1 btw
after a year or two you may want to clean or replace the separator filter, it is serviceable. The PCV drains back so no maintenance other than that is needed.
enjoy ur fine ride!!
05-05-2013, 12:07 AM
#236
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
good buy i think Mike looked after his car mity fine.
Its actually brand new I exchanged it so I could look at his old one to see the condition, and send him a new one with revised location brackets. The system was A1 btw
after a year or two you may want to clean or replace the separator filter, it is serviceable. The PCV drains back so no maintenance other than that is needed.
enjoy ur fine ride!!
Its actually brand new I exchanged it so I could look at his old one to see the condition, and send him a new one with revised location brackets. The system was A1 btw
after a year or two you may want to clean or replace the separator filter, it is serviceable. The PCV drains back so no maintenance other than that is needed.
enjoy ur fine ride!!
Its been fun so far, going from a base model to a very well modified SS/TC, just have to hit the road course sometime instead of switchbacks (damn bikers around here, the self powered bikers)
I'll be putting more of your stuff on after I replenish the funds (mounts, hardcore or XXX bar, CABs, trap oil pan, and maybe the UCR)
05-07-2013, 03:05 PM
#238
OBZ I did look at it, really; it would be like an EVO one and would cost a lot more to make right. Not sure if thats what peeps want . There is a horrible EBay one for like under 200 shipped that scares me, but for folks who want looks thats what they do. email me for more, maybe I could dream something up in June but Randy's auto mounts are first in line for new projects. these projects lkill time lol
05-07-2013, 05:16 PM
#240
OBZ I did look at it, really; it would be like an EVO one and would cost a lot more to make right. Not sure if thats what peeps want . There is a horrible EBay one for like under 200 shipped that scares me, but for folks who want looks thats what they do. email me for more, maybe I could dream something up in June but Randy's auto mounts are first in line for new projects. these projects lkill time lol
05-07-2013, 06:49 PM
#243
the auto mounts? Or the race mounts? Race mounts should do out this week....got shuffled back as I paid attention to the following:
Russell back ordered some of the Endura fittings in my PCV upgrade order which was already late
Gloria's Denali died on the way to the shop: fool pump 400 dollars + flatbed
Hardcore CM order shipping delayed - cant blame the snow this time fgt freight company
PC caliper customer front calipers are junque....
WntrBtr2 developed a leak in the heater bypass control valve. Fortunately is a Catera/AC Delco part so avoided GM rip off but still have to wait a day.
Machinist is a victim of his own success and hardwork, delays in machining but mounts are done , race control arms almost etc
and so on.
get my drift ?lol typical week around here.
Russell back ordered some of the Endura fittings in my PCV upgrade order which was already late
Gloria's Denali died on the way to the shop: fool pump 400 dollars + flatbed
Hardcore CM order shipping delayed - cant blame the snow this time fgt freight company
PC caliper customer front calipers are junque....
WntrBtr2 developed a leak in the heater bypass control valve. Fortunately is a Catera/AC Delco part so avoided GM rip off but still have to wait a day.
Machinist is a victim of his own success and hardwork, delays in machining but mounts are done , race control arms almost etc
and so on.
get my drift ?lol typical week around here.
05-07-2013, 07:09 PM
#247
yeah the race mounts. i wish i had an auto..
definitely understand though. for how much you've helped out and what you're doing, i don't mind things getting pushed forward ahead in the priority line.
what are you driving for the wntrbtr2?
definitely understand though. for how much you've helped out and what you're doing, i don't mind things getting pushed forward ahead in the priority line.
what are you driving for the wntrbtr2?
05-07-2013, 07:20 PM
#248
the auto mounts? Or the race mounts? Race mounts should do out this week....got shuffled back as I paid attention to the following:
Russell back ordered some of the Endura fittings in my PCV upgrade order which was already late
Gloria's Denali died on the way to the shop: fool pump 400 dollars + flatbed
Hardcore CM order shipping delayed - cant blame the snow this time fgt freight company
PC caliper customer front calipers are junque....
WntrBtr2 developed a leak in the heater bypass control valve. Fortunately is a Catera/AC Delco part so avoided GM rip off but still have to wait a day.
Machinist is a victim of his own success and hardwork, delays in machining but mounts are done , race control arms almost etc
and so on.
get my drift ?lol typical week around here.
Russell back ordered some of the Endura fittings in my PCV upgrade order which was already late
Gloria's Denali died on the way to the shop: fool pump 400 dollars + flatbed
Hardcore CM order shipping delayed - cant blame the snow this time fgt freight company
PC caliper customer front calipers are junque....
WntrBtr2 developed a leak in the heater bypass control valve. Fortunately is a Catera/AC Delco part so avoided GM rip off but still have to wait a day.
Machinist is a victim of his own success and hardwork, delays in machining but mounts are done , race control arms almost etc
and so on.
get my drift ?lol typical week around here.