that sencence makes no sense. but anyway, you're still wrong.
an inanimate mass cannot have "efficiency"
efficiency is the ratio of work/energy created by something in relation in the work/energy required to create it.
duh.
i asked you nicely, please stop pulling in extra crap in an attempt to cover your ass.
i specifically said at the same rpm.
but but but... you said lower down that boost is a restricion (which it is, depending on what you're measuring)
so now we have efficient restrictions?
no no we're talking about the same blower at the same speed here. adding in more variables would only further confuse you
air is an inanimate mass. it cannot have an "efficiency"
also, the air and meth sprayed pre blower are at the same temp. no heat transfer here. the cooler iat's come from the w/m absorbing heat AFTER the blower. denser air PRE blower will make more boost yes but that's not what we're talking about here. stay on topic please, you'll confuse the readers.
again, they're mechanical parts, they have no "efficiency"
the output efficiency gained is from the action that these parts perform
nope. i was gonna type it again, but i already explained it.
FINALLY we agree on something. you're getting there.
2psi isn't worth noting?
generally right.



ok, now we have more **** i have to sort through with what was supposed to be a simple question that you answered incorrectly.

by the very definition of efficiency, the blower is gaining. the w/m is sealing up the gap between the rotors and housing, increasing the output efficiency BECAUSE, (back to the definition) the blower is now putting out more air (which is it's task, it's "work")without having to work any harder. this increases the ratio of work performed vs work required. tadah-> increased efficiency.

forget about blower speed, we can use a stock pulley in this scenerio if you want, everything still applies as long as we're comparing apples to apples.








on to something else you don't understand. it would probably be best if you put your rebuttle in 2 seperate posts so you can keep your "facts" straight

you don't understand at all what the effeciency of the blower displayed in the compressor map even means.

see the labels? NOTHING about blower speed. it's pressure ratio. SOOO.....
a catback increases blower efficiency.
a ported head increases blower efficiency.
a more aggressive cam, better flowing IM, ANYTHING that lowers the PRESSURE RATIO increases blower efficiency. (oh wait, you said blower efficiency can't change... compressor map is wrong maybe?)


now, before you go and try to cover your ass again and say that the w/m increasing boost reduces blower efficiency, which is how it will look to most of you at first, look again at the labels of the compressor map. the bottom axis is inlet flow volume. by sealing up the rotors, thus raising the outptu efficiency, you are also increading the inlet flow volume (the air has to come from somewhere).
so you are increasing the pressure ratio on same scale as increasing the inlet flow volume, keeping the overall efficiency of the system relatively the same.

this is why i spicifically and repeatedly said "output efficiency", which for the sake of this argument differs slightly from the efficiency of the entire system.




edit:
i should add, i'm not doing this for the sake of argueing with you. this is for the poor souls that have been conned into taking your word as law.
ppl PLEASE do some research. i'm saying don't even take my word as gold. do a little research and see for yourself. most ppl learn better that way.

 

holy nut sack this is goona be a good thread of info

 

someone has to do it....

 

im not agreeing with either side..im simply here to see the information put out and learn from it..wether its correct or wrong its information

 

i'm honestly glad that you say that. take the information provided, do a little searching and reading, and see for yourself how you feel about it.

as has been proven, no one can "make" you believe anything.

 

At the same time the science is right there. Black and white.

 

Nice informative post. U know your **** armcclure.

Subd for more info.

 

that's the way i feel... If there is something that anyone can prove me wrong on with facts, i'll gladly admit it and do more research. but i love science and physics, and am fully confident in everything i said.
thank's. i try to do my best.

but, and i honestly mean this, ppl reading this thread please don't just "pick a side"
take a little innitiative and do a little research and learn for yourself. i will GLADLY point you in what i think is the right direction, and ask others for help if it's something i don't know.

i am not at all a meth expert. but what i am is someone who finds hard facts and i do my best to understand them and relate them to others in a way they can understand.

everything i posted is based off of simple laws of science, and applies to much more than just blowers.

 

u talk very proper..r u old? lol not tyrin to be rude or nething

 

lol no i'm actually 24.

i've just found that people are more likely to take you seriously and listen to what you have to say / hear you out if you use proper grammer and try to be clear.

i'm not the grammar police, i just like my "informative" posts to be clear so that you can understand what i'm trying to say as easily as possible.

 

ok i was jus curious..most ppl (lik myself) tlk like were texting on here and urs come out very proper and correct lol

 

:nods:

You're not grasping the concept of what overspinning a supercharger truely is. The word over-spun is a word used far to loosely.

The graphs eaton/magnuson provide on their m62/mp62 provide a maximum RPM because in stock form @ a GIVEN PSI usually 5/10, the blower goes out of efficiency past X RPM effecting VE, Thermal temps, CFM, etc.

Throw water/methanol into the mix and you can now use those tables provided as a dart board.

You've effectively raised the ceiling of the original max capabilities. By cooling the supercharger, greater s/c rpm can be achieved by improving the s/c's VE, thermal s/c temperature and CFM output tables through out the entire range, and ultimately at greater RPM.

So what's happening here? You've picked up 2 PSI and you are not spinning the blower any faster?

Aside from the obvious clearances being filled by the use of water/methanol (**Creating a more efficient pump**), in essence you've done nothing more than allow the CFM, Thermal temps, and VE tables to have improved efficiency through out and at greater RPM.

 

First and formost, I have been talking about the actual revolutions of the sc mechanical parts. I was stating over spinning them can cause issues. Now onto what your talking about more.

This is just from wiki, Just showing the revving ov the sc is showing speed, but also the inlet cfm will change with the higher rev.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ciency_map.jpg

Now onto more about the compressor map. Say your pushing 1.5 bar which is 22.05lbs, after the Baro pressure has been accounted for. already begining your around 50% efficient, now rev out more and inlet flow goes up and the temp gets higher from the air passing through the rotors which will cause the efficieny to go down.

Now more onto the meth, throwing in meth/water yes it does seal the system better and may cause more boost because of the seal. But the m62 isnt a 100% flow, its a pulsating type system (roots). And more, lowering the temps within the oncoming air in the sc makes the efficieny rise if it lowers temps enough. Now this is where i was trying to make a statement. The m62 can only push so much cfm out, so over passing the borderline of it is pointless. Even with meth.

 

And btw when i was saying the rotating mass efficeny, i should have said ( the rotating masses max revolution based on tensil strengths, bearings, etc)

 

Are you really quoting from wiki?

2.5 bar is not 22 psi -_-

PSI BAR Converter

1 bar = 14.5 psi
2 bar = 29 psi
2.5 bar = 36 psi

The 2.5 pr is 22 psi not 2.5 bar. It's the ratio of air after compression vs the air before compression.

 

No i am not quoting from wiki, You can look up what i said if you want. I just looked up another map. Yes I know how the bar system works, dunno if you know yet but when it comes to me writing things. I tend to not duly explain lol.

1bar is baro which is 14.7 if sea level so 14.7/2.0=7.35+14.7+14.7 (baro)=36.75-14.75=22.05 which is actual boost

 

the roots style system is a like two 8s rotaing together so with one revolution of the rotor (8) it pulsates

 

I'm sorry James but you need to stop. You aren't helping man. I'm sure we all appreciate you trying though.

 

....

 

I'm well aware that 2.0 PR is 14.7

On the other hand since this thread is to be informative, this needed to be addressed. Most don't have a concept of what PR is.

 

This thread was a informative thread. Not a look I'm saying one thing and someone is saying something different. From when it started in arguing or what ever I was stating the fact of over spinning the actual parts. Not te effiecint of the sc air with meth. And then I did state it yes meth helps with efficiency or quality of air coming out but doesn't help with over spinning the sc components.

 

Should rename to Methanol & Ethanol Pros and Cons and do a write up on Ethanol as well since both of these questions are widely asked lately, then also get it stickied!!

 

So what will happen if someone runs meth without a tune? also what if someone is tuned for meth but doesnt want to run it all the time and turns if off but is still tuned for it?

 

My plan, at least to start. Have the AIS kit and gonna install long weekend without any real tuning so I'll let ya know.

 

lol Yea i just got a ais also i'm trying to find info and the do's and dont's. I have an lsj its my DD but dont want to run meth all the time. so i'm just trying to get info cause i dont want my car to blow. lol