so... what do I need to start a meth lab again? you all confuse the **** out of me!

 

Well depending on what you have in the mix, how big the nozzle is and where its set to come on it may or may not affect anything. I would assume at the very least it would make your car stumble a little bit when it activates. Worse case it floods so bad that you shut down. Personally, I wouldn't run it without being tuned shortly after if not the same day.

As far as a having it to where you don't run it all the time... Thats kinda how the stuff works anyways. It doesn't constantly run (unless you have it set that way which would be pretty much unheard of). The idea behind them is to come on when the motor is under load and making power ie, under boost. I've never owned one myself but from the research I've done it sounds like the resovouir lasts a good while if you don't constantly floor it everywhere you go.

The other alternative would be to have two separate tunes where one is your track tune that you have the meth run at and the other would be a much less aggressive/conservative daily tune where the meth does not initiate what so ever. This would require you to always know which you're running so you can have the system on and ready to go or off so you don't flood your system.

OR

Just do E85 (j/k )

 

Ok i see well i have a 3m nozzle and it's set to activate at 10psi. also whats the best way to have 2 tune set up and how can i switch them safely and quickly?

 

uh.. there's 3 lobes
thank you

uh.. no you weren't. you were trying to teach people about methanol injection which you don't fully understand
but you said....
but you said it didn't....
again.. the meth cools temps AFTER the blower, not before.

go ahead and change your words and edit your posts. i still have you quoted.

i tried not to be a dick at first....

 

I think the problem here is all the techical info is getting confusing, what james was trying to say i believe is that spraying meth dont make the sc more efficient there for is still a bad idea to over spin it, but with meth injection u can take the blower past its efficiceny. I dont see the need to argue this anymore just for the sake of disproving eaxh other

 

I don't see arguing. Just some good info being posted.

Also, when you have someone who has a big influence on a lot of members here and he posts info that is not fully accurate, do you think they know that? He tunes a lot of guys on here and im sure they stand by almost anything he says about a technical topic because they look up to him. In a similar way I look up to my tuner and listen to almost everything he teaches me.

 

That's the issue. Spraying meth pre blower DOES make the blower itself more efficient at moving air.

 

That is EXACLTY why i even bothered with this. I don't care to argue with james just for fun. That would be pointless.
The time i spent putting my posts together and rounding up information was for the other ppl on this forum to learn from, not to just disprove someone.

 

I wasn't trying to be a dick I was just trying to stop the bleeding. He was going on a tangent and I don't think it was helping.

Glad to see you here in this post armcclure. You've posted some very accurate and objective info.

 

Oh i wasn't accusing you lol

I'll admit i started being a bit of a dick as this thread went on and for that, ccss3, i do apologize. My intention wasn't to just call you out but to put correct information on the table.

We all like to sling a little mud every now and then though :P

 

And most ppl don't realize that where some of us run this blower every day is almost off the top of the map, yet gains are still made

 

Ill be honest u seem like a nice guy and you answered alot of my questions on redline forums and Im thankful for that but they way you was coming off seem to me like u wanted to pick a fight, you told him to go ahead and edit his post because you have him quoted and then posted a pic of a gun, that was egging him on just to fight with him. U made ur point that with meth you can gain more power due too the rotors having a better seal, and im pretty sure james agreed with that also.

 

^^ this. I understand what james means. Im not a guru or nothing but from my past supercharger experience, I know meth helps you run your SC past its regular effiency range. The SC efficiency range is not gonna change because is it physically built to support that range. Like someone said earlier meth is a crutch. It just means you can use productively use it beyond its range. When the meth runs out, that crutch is gone and that supercharger is exactly where that map showed it suppose to be relative to the speed you was running it at. Its gonna be either range, in my case 2.8 stock pulley or out of range, my case again 2.6 pulley. But I will say i did get good info i never knew from both sides.

 

I did start becoming a dick because the crap he was throwing back at me was rediculous.
Maybe james agrees now, but earlier on he specifically said i was wrong. I posted that pic because he is backpedaling and saying different things now than he claimed earlier.

 

If you're talking about the compressor map, then yes, it doesn't change unless the factors used to create it are changed (w/m sealing rotors)
One of the points i was trying to make is that the efficiency of the blower at Xrpm CAN change due to outside actions. Anything that changes the pressure ratio without changing anything about the blower (same rpm/cfm) DOES change the efficiency the blower is operating at.
For example, say you have a stock car making 12psi. You add a header and catback and this is The ONLY thing you change. The boost drops, lowering the pressure ratio, and moves the blower into a higher efficiency range on the map.
You have just raised the operating efficiency of the blower without even touching it.

 

I said its like (8), i didnt say its like a triangle because i dont have a pick within my laptop to put it so i couldnt give a visual. Which it still pulsates and yes i know there are thress lobes. I have a few m62s sitting right night to me

 

is someone not allowed to change there opinion? has no one ever told u ur wrong before? Im not saying ur wrong, im just saying people will have a difference of opinion and sometimes they will be new info that comes forward and they will change their opinion.

the only thing iv seen him say you was wrong about is meth making the SC unit more efficient, he said the air becomes more efficient but the unit it self is the same, either way u cut it it still comes out to meth making more power for the sc.

 

I know you know that. That was just a jab. Sorry.
But what about the rest?

 

I have been wrong before. And if i am i admit it and move forward. The issue is that he never admitted to being wrong, instead just stating more opinions that contradict his earlier ones.

And meth does raise the output efficiency of the blower. You can't change the efficiency of air because it has none. No physical object does. Only actions do. Such as the action of the blower moving air.

 

Im not trying to debate that, i wouldnt have a clue so I wouldnt comment about it, i was just saying that seems what james was talking about.

 

Originally yes. Then one thing led to another and here we are.

Yeah i started getting shitty. That happens sometimes when sm1 tells you you're wrong in a shitty way. I'm incorrect and repulsive? Don't think so. I've been stating facts and science, and he comes back saying i'm wrong with no proof, just his opinions. Yes, that's going to **** me off.

 

Thats one thing that meth does, create a temporary conditions to allow your sc or tc to be usable in otherwise useless ranges. I wouldnt say efficiency of the air you can change but the "p"(density). Cause that what allows the sc to be more "efficient". That and that alone.

Another argument can be had where meth dont improve the sc efficiency because of where the meth is introduced. Some recommend that the meth be introduced after the rotors cause it can strip the rotors of its coating evenually making the sc physically less effcient. So in that situation the sc efficiencies is not improved but you will be introducing cooler, denser air into your system to make gains off of

 

Am I wrong? To a certain point. Confusion just got into place because we were talking about two different things.

Te compressor map shows the actual efficiency along the boost and etc. so of course if air is cooled down or if the actual sc is cooled down the efficiency will rise because. The sc isn't making heat any longer

 

this how the convo went:


I dont not see any attitudes in any his earlier post. You the one that got riled up. Has attitude was in response to yours. Every action have a reaction. IJS. Probably if your reply was expressed in another way it would have been more of a debate than argument.

 

what pissed me off was instantly being told i was wrong based off of an opinion.
if he would have stated his opinion with facts to back it then we could have had a nice little debate.



are you saying air density alone affects sc efficiency?
while density does play a part, it is far from the only variable.
i sat here and debated on weather to go into this or not, but because you brought it up i will.

spraying post blower does increase the operating efficiency (where it is in the compressor map at that moment) of the blower in a different and very small way.
it might help to mentally take a freeze frame of a WOT pull to understand this..

take that "frame" and imagine one spraying post blower and one not spraying at all.
the pressure in the IM (boost) is a representation of the amount of air in that confined space (IM)

the combined gas law

comes into play here. (this formula only works with si units)

now for me to plug in numbers and demonstrate exactly, i'd need to take a little time and convert everything over to si units, and if you guys want me to i will, but this will do for now.

in the freeze frame with no meth, those numbers go in the "1" side
so you have a given pressure, volume, and temp.

now add the w/m.


when the w/m is added, it absorbs heat from the air, decreasing the temp. (we all know this)

i'll throw some example numbers in here to give you an idea. (this is not exact numbers, but the ratios will change in the same direction)

say you have 10psi, 10cf, and 100*

10x10/100=1 <-- this is the "constant" that the other side of the equation must equal.


now with w/m added, the temp goes down to say 75*

volume never changes

So, in order for the law to hold true and get our "constant" of one, and volume didn't change, pressure has to.

so rearrange the equation a little, and we get (Tx"1")/V=P
our new temp is 75 so
75x1=75
75/10=7.5 <-- new psi

lower psi= lower pressure ratio

and if we go back to our compressor map, specifically in the areas that we normally run this blower, we can see that lowering the pressure ratio increases the operating efficiency of the blower.

some might say "yeah but you're putting meth in there so it's more stuff in the same volume" and they would be right IF the density of w/m and air was the same. w/m is so much more dense than air that the added molecules vs the heat they absorb is negligable in this estimated calculation.


now i am NOT saying you're going to see a boost drop spraying bost blower. like i said this is very small.

but, i just wanted to make it clear that spraying meth pre OR post blower does, in fact, have an effect on the operating efficienty of the blower.