Koni shocks and struts. Info and how to adjust
08-24-2016, 05:11 PM
#202
I read all the way through this thread and it was still never really addressed. Everyone says set the rear Koni's half way but don't tell you how many turns that is explicitly. I set mine a couple of weeks ago so I am recalling from memory so I may be a little off and invite someone to correct me. What I observed was that there is about 1-1/2 complete rotations (540 degrees) available for adjustment. To get to the halfway point you should be able to rotate all the way soft or all the way hard and either back it off or advance the setting 3/4 of a full rotation 90+180 degrees.
I know it has been said that 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn from full soft is a good setting but I just wanted to make it clear that 3/4 of a turn from either direction should be halfway.
On a not so related note I noticed someone said something about the rear end skipping a bit. In this video at about 11 seconds in right after the slalom you can kind of see my car hopping. I was tripoding and it felt like the one tire on the ground was kind of hopping. I asked John Powell about it and he said it was probably tire temp or pressure. I'm currently running Michelin Pilot Super Sports (I know not the best tire for autocross) at 38 psi in the front and 37 in the rear. If I run them lower I seem to get too much tire roll. I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight into what I experienced here.
I know it has been said that 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn from full soft is a good setting but I just wanted to make it clear that 3/4 of a turn from either direction should be halfway.
On a not so related note I noticed someone said something about the rear end skipping a bit. In this video at about 11 seconds in right after the slalom you can kind of see my car hopping. I was tripoding and it felt like the one tire on the ground was kind of hopping. I asked John Powell about it and he said it was probably tire temp or pressure. I'm currently running Michelin Pilot Super Sports (I know not the best tire for autocross) at 38 psi in the front and 37 in the rear. If I run them lower I seem to get too much tire roll. I was wondering if anyone had any additional insight into what I experienced here.
08-25-2016, 11:53 AM
#205
They don't click on the rears.
Best way is to hold the shock vertically, turn it full soft first, then watch the alignment of the bolt holes of the shock as you turn it to firm it up... think of a clock while doing it.
Best way is to hold the shock vertically, turn it full soft first, then watch the alignment of the bolt holes of the shock as you turn it to firm it up... think of a clock while doing it.
07-20-2017, 02:02 AM
#207
I know this is late, but I am just getting the balt back so I am back on the forum and reading posts and getting parts. Let me address a couple handling issues here, if that is not to bold.
Its been a while since I raced with double adjustable shocks and adjustable sway bar. In racing you will learn the better you are at setting up a car the faster and the more often you will win or do better.
Before making any adjustments you need to know where the problem is. Corner entry or exit, understeer or oversteer.
As said from a few above. If the rear shocks are set too stiff the back will be much looser or can skid, as well as having too much air pressure.
I will get back into the adjustment modes again when I again do my track days.
In general if I remember shocks control corner entry and exit, sway bar mid corner.
Springs ideally should be softer vs stiffer unless you have a all out race car. Three cars including mine in the same class SM2 ran 1200 lb springs front, 1000 lb springs front, 800 lb springs front. Three of the same type of cars with the same motor yet three different spring rates.
Front wheel drive you need a softer bar in front to allow traction. Stiff in the rear will help with rotation.
shocks stiff enough to work well with the springs, but the stiffer you go with the shocks the slower you will go, although it may feel faster. As Wangspeed was speaking about say 1/2 turn off full soft in front allows the shock to work with the spring, and if single adjustable will slow the transfer from left to right in corner entry or exit, but not so slowly to allow a tire to lift. When you see a car with an inside wheel off the ground? While it may look cool, it is slow. Remember that person just lost the benefit off all that rubber on the ground to help them go around the corner faster. Tires off the ground is never good.
Being we have FWD we have to ensure we have a soft enough front to allow grip, and stiff enough rear to allow rotation.
I know John does not like big tires but I was running 285/30/18s on 11 in front rims and it worked great for slow corners. Now I am going to 10 in since I will be doing more track days. But in autox I could tell the diff from 11 in to 10 in wheels in front. 11 was faster than 10 if you had time to warm tires.
If this is silly stuff you already know, sorry, I am an old guy and am just trying to help.
Last thing, if you have not done the research the springs John uses hyperco are the best you can buy. My hyperco springs and double adjustable shocks were $1,000 a corner and that was not the top of the line for shocks. But since John uses hyperco they are great springs that with the right shocks will be outstand.
Best
Spank
Its been a while since I raced with double adjustable shocks and adjustable sway bar. In racing you will learn the better you are at setting up a car the faster and the more often you will win or do better.
Before making any adjustments you need to know where the problem is. Corner entry or exit, understeer or oversteer.
As said from a few above. If the rear shocks are set too stiff the back will be much looser or can skid, as well as having too much air pressure.
I will get back into the adjustment modes again when I again do my track days.
In general if I remember shocks control corner entry and exit, sway bar mid corner.
Springs ideally should be softer vs stiffer unless you have a all out race car. Three cars including mine in the same class SM2 ran 1200 lb springs front, 1000 lb springs front, 800 lb springs front. Three of the same type of cars with the same motor yet three different spring rates.
Front wheel drive you need a softer bar in front to allow traction. Stiff in the rear will help with rotation.
shocks stiff enough to work well with the springs, but the stiffer you go with the shocks the slower you will go, although it may feel faster. As Wangspeed was speaking about say 1/2 turn off full soft in front allows the shock to work with the spring, and if single adjustable will slow the transfer from left to right in corner entry or exit, but not so slowly to allow a tire to lift. When you see a car with an inside wheel off the ground? While it may look cool, it is slow. Remember that person just lost the benefit off all that rubber on the ground to help them go around the corner faster. Tires off the ground is never good.
Being we have FWD we have to ensure we have a soft enough front to allow grip, and stiff enough rear to allow rotation.
I know John does not like big tires but I was running 285/30/18s on 11 in front rims and it worked great for slow corners. Now I am going to 10 in since I will be doing more track days. But in autox I could tell the diff from 11 in to 10 in wheels in front. 11 was faster than 10 if you had time to warm tires.
If this is silly stuff you already know, sorry, I am an old guy and am just trying to help.
Last thing, if you have not done the research the springs John uses hyperco are the best you can buy. My hyperco springs and double adjustable shocks were $1,000 a corner and that was not the top of the line for shocks. But since John uses hyperco they are great springs that with the right shocks will be outstand.
Best
Spank
07-20-2017, 09:10 AM
#208
I don't know if you are addressing me directly or not spank but thanks for the info. The only adjustability I have is in the rear Koni shocks and my front sway bar end links are adjustable. Running the TC Cobalt sway bar up front, with Powells hardcore bar in the back, YYZ v.5 springs, and TC Cobalt front control arm with Powell's spherical bushings. I was considering getting his rear twisting beam bushings. What would you say for my next suspension mod would have the most benefit for autoX?
07-20-2017, 11:23 PM
#209
What size tires are you running and what type. Also if you don't have the XXX bar you need it. Made the car great. I have shocks at home as well as new powell springs. I would do these two. First get the XXX bar, it will make a huge difference in the back end. Much more neutral. Used it for years with stock TC shocks. Take it off if it snows, but for track and dd it is outstanding. Then get the front Koni shocks. You can dial what you want depending on how the rear feels. But anyway do the Sway bar first, and see how you like it. You should notice a big diff your first two corners.
Best
Spank
Best
Spank
07-21-2017, 08:57 AM
#210
What size tires are you running and what type. Also if you don't have the XXX bar you need it. Made the car great. I have shocks at home as well as new powell springs. I would do these two. First get the XXX bar, it will make a huge difference in the back end. Much more neutral. Used it for years with stock TC shocks. Take it off if it snows, but for track and dd it is outstanding. Then get the front Koni shocks. You can dial what you want depending on how the rear feels. But anyway do the Sway bar first, and see how you like it. You should notice a big diff your first two corners.
Best
Spank
Best
Spank
I have Powells hardcore sway bar in the rear which is just a step down from XXX and what John recommended for my application. Did make a big difference but I think I have enough rear rotation that I don't think I need a bigger bar ATM. I am keeping an eye for a decent deal on Konis for the front.
07-21-2017, 03:08 PM
#211
Next is have the best front wheel driver or the best driver you know do an event with you in your car. I flew in a multi time national champion to drive with me for two different weekends once I started getting serious. If you have one locally, then do it. If you can see the other driver doing it in your car then you can do it to. Also if they are of national caliber they will be able to help you with any improvements you can make as far as suspension as your car sits.
No better way to get fast than have someone faster than you driving your car with you in it. I guarantee you will get faster each run.
Best
Spank
No better way to get fast than have someone faster than you driving your car with you in it. I guarantee you will get faster each run.
Best
Spank
07-21-2017, 05:02 PM
#212
I don't autox but I'm going to try his undercar rails because I can tell the chassis stiffening is already starting to get weaker in my car, and it will with time. I have trouble keeping paint on the very top corner of the drivers door now since it's making contact with the roof, and my door hinges are tight.
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