CCSS3 Tuned - Just got Dyno'd...
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
The point that we tried to make is that the power does not need to fall off up top in order to be safe. If power spikes in the middle and then falls a bunch, you might as well have a little less in the middle and a little more at the top and it will actually be safer. Originally we were told that the timing caused this. Then when we said that it didn't make sense to do that, we were met with excuses that the dyno had problems and the clutch was slipping which seems like a strange excuse for power to fall at high rpms. However, it does not mean that it is not a factor, overall. If anyone wants to know the real reasons that the power curve looks like it does, we would be willing to discuss it. Others have no interest in figuring out why they set up a tune that appears to have a very narrow power band on the dyno test graph.
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Sorry, but I was left speechless there for a minute. I really hope that you do not believe that ccss3 pedalling cheap tunes on the side does 10 times more for the Cobalt community than zzp has. If you honestly believe that, then I am attempting to reason with someone who is clearly delusional.
so say i want my power to ramp up and peek @6k rpms, then basically my driving would fully control the power, rather than the power control me...does that make sense?
I was told that my peak power would be somewhere around 320whp, and 380wtq @ 24psi, but can that be made at a safe constant rate or at arate where it gets to that at the top of the rpms?
I was told that my peak power would be somewhere around 320whp, and 380wtq @ 24psi, but can that be made at a safe constant rate or at arate where it gets to that at the top of the rpms?
Former Vendor
Joined: 06-03-08
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 8
From: Grand Rapids, MI
so say i want my power to ramp up and peek @6k rpms, then basically my driving would fully control the power, rather than the power control me...does that make sense?
I was told that my peak power would be somewhere around 320whp, and 380wtq @ 24psi, but can that be made at a safe constant rate or at arate where it gets to that at the top of the rpms?
I was told that my peak power would be somewhere around 320whp, and 380wtq @ 24psi, but can that be made at a safe constant rate or at arate where it gets to that at the top of the rpms?
The only way it can be like what you are saying is if you don't understand the physics behind it. Zoom explained how ignition timing is actually a function of time that is typically stated in degrees instead. To simplify it, this means that 15 degrees of advance at one engine speed can be exactly the same amount of spark lead as 10 degrees of advance at a lower engine speed. Now you are trying to say that adding a few degrees of timing at high rpms is somehow like hitting a pole at 55 instead of 25, which is a useless comparison as well as entirely false at the same time.
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Senior Member
Joined: 05-15-10
Posts: 3,994
Likes: 2
From: South Charleston, WV
Now this is all under my opinion that 300hp at 3k is not the same amount of stress etc as 300hp at 7k. I don't really believe that is a baseless argument. Claiming the opposite is kind've like saying "if I'm going 25mph and hit the telephone pole it will do the same amount of damage as going 55mph and hitting the telephone pole". 
.
.You are factually wrong and seeming to be happy to spread it. Be careful when you correct one of the best shops in the country for this stuff. Maybe you should approach it as a question so you don't spread the wrong info and look foolish.
"Zoom, does the car have less stress at 3k rpm with 300WHP than at 6k with the same HP"? and then I would respond as I am going to now.
The torque is exactly double in the 300 HP at 3k rpm than with 300 HP at 6k rpm. So the engine and clutch are stressed drastically more. In fact, the 3k rpm setup would have 525ft/lbs of torque and not many clutches will hold up to that. Taking it further, say you had 300 HP at 1500 rpm. Torque would be over 1000 and you'd twist the crank in 1/2, bend the rods and do other damage.
But here is where we get into torque/HP and I'm guessing that would cause a huge amount of chaos as no one even knows what that is. Those threads always get out of line in every car forum. I wish physics was more of a priority in school...
When you talk about rpm related failure, it gets into balancing and engine failures by other means, not usually HP but it's a moot point as the engine is designed to run at 6k in factory form.
how about zzp keeps out of all these threads and minds their own goddamn business. This is getting old as ****, you guys are seriously children. This thread had absolutely nothing to do with you… at all. You wanted to come in and wave your dicks around as if anyone in this thread is actually going to give a **** what you say.
Matt I swear your a kid behind a computer that over seas anything said... Your assumption of my words make me laugh. Did I say I ramped timing to 26* or did I say I ramped it to 12* at most on top. I said max 12*.. get your **** straight mid range is even lower then stock...
-------------------
ON specific timing, of course 26 deg of timing at 6k is aggressive and more so than 12 at 3k. that's not the point. The point I was saying which you can't understand w/o knowing what timing is, is this:
Effective timing drops as rpm climbs. How much? It depends, it varies based on many things. However, it does always drop. So you can add SOME timing as rpm climbs and be LESS aggressive despite having higher ignition timing.
And if this thread goes no where, I hope someone learns from this.
If you have an engine (and I'm using examples, not an actual tune), that runs 300 HP at 3k rpm with 15 deg of timing. You could in theory run 17 deg of timing at 6k rpm and have 290 HP. The motor would be less stressed at 6k rpm, even tho timing is higher. This is because effective timing is lower. You also have less torque at higher rpm so the components are stressed less until you reach rpms that can induce balance and inertia type failures. But the formula for that is the square of rpm so you are very safe a little ways below the rpm limit of the motor. At 290 HP, you are also stressing components less due to less HP. So to repeat, less effective timing, less torque, less HP, safer motor at 6k.
Last edited by Zooomer; Feb 12, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
Hey Matt, incorrect. I stated the Dick in the hole. Zoomer basically called me a ***. Which in return I stated since he went there i would. If you reread all of zoomers post, you'll see why this thread went south..... I stated along with op his timing a conservative and is ramped to a full 12* ... Omfg its not what it can be. No Duh....... Op didn't want it like that. Lets put apples to apples.... Your bnr build you just did.. you stated you couldn't get. Highish timing because the e this time a year. Well ill put it plain and simple. I pushed my bnr e47 guy passed 30lbs and held 26* all the way 0 kr on indy e. Which is gonna be ****. So tell me how you didn't manage to do this..... Hmmmmmmmmm.
Lol. Peddling tunes. So called zoomer said give us a hour on a ccss3 car and we will get power.. umm it seems your the ones peddling tunes out.. I take time, i answer my phone, i don't charge for revisions unless boted why, I answer my emails, I have happy customers, which are my friends, just not my money givers.. once you guys relize there's more then stealing money which is what you do... Hint hint blown lsj cuz fuel. hahaha gay.... Oh yeah since you guys talk crap about my grammer watch your own puncuation ... Noon.. So stop peddling tunes and
Sorry, but I was left speechless there for a minute. I really hope that you do not believe that ccss3 pedalling cheap tunes on the side does 10 times more for the Cobalt community than zzp has. If you honestly believe that, then I am attempting to reason with someone who is clearly delusional.
Sorry, but I was left speechless there for a minute. I really hope that you do not believe that ccss3 pedalling cheap tunes on the side does 10 times more for the Cobalt community than zzp has. If you honestly believe that, then I am attempting to reason with someone who is clearly delusional.Lol. Peddling tunes. So called zoomer said give us a hour on a ccss3 car and we will get power.. umm it seems your the ones peddling tunes out.. I take time, i answer my phone, i don't charge for revisions unless boted why, I answer my emails, I have happy customers, which are my friends, just not my money givers.. once you guys relize there's more then stealing money which is what you do... Hint hint blown lsj cuz fuel. hahaha gay.... Oh yeah since you guys talk crap about my grammer watch your own puncuation ... Noon.. So stop peddling tunes and
As far as stealing goes, that would be what you do when you advertise or promote goods or services w/o being on this page: https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/supp...ct-list-22184/
Matt get off your Ass and look at what I write please. your goin around and around about the same bullshit....... i never said I didnt ramp it. I said his timing ramp isnt aggressive.
And this is what this forum is for, correcting the false pretenses and misunderstanding of information around here.
You are factually wrong and seeming to be happy to spread it. Be careful when you correct one of the best shops in the country for this stuff. Maybe you should approach it as a question so you don't spread the wrong info and look foolish.
"Zoom, does the car have less stress at 3k rpm with 300WHP than at 6k with the same HP"? and then I would respond as I am going to now.
The torque is exactly double in the 300 HP at 3k rpm than with 300 HP at 6k rpm. So the engine and clutch are stressed drastically more. In fact, the 3k rpm setup would have 525ft/lbs of torque and not many clutches will hold up to that. Taking it further, say you had 300 HP at 1500 rpm. Torque would be over 1000 and you'd twist the crank in 1/2, bend the rods and do other damage.
But here is where we get into torque/HP and I'm guessing that would cause a huge amount of chaos as no one even knows what that is. Those threads always get out of line in every car forum. I wish physics was more of a priority in school...
When you talk about rpm related failure, it gets into balancing and engine failures by other means, not usually HP but it's a moot point as the engine is designed to run at 6k in factory form.
How about you stop whining like a child and learn something? This forum is supposed to be fore learning which means someone has to have something to teach and someone needs to learn. Before ZZP these types are threads were the reason Cobalts were so embarrassing and threads were the mockery of the internet to other car owners.
You're confusing actual timing numbers with a concept of what timing is. You don't even understand what is happening in a motor so you just keep arguing about specific numbers or timing ramps. You've already gone from saying you didn't ramp timing to saying you did. Every post you just keep saying 'i know what I'm doing' w/o actually saying what you're doing. Saying you know what you're doing is hardly a technical answer.
-------------------
ON specific timing, of course 26 deg of timing at 6k is aggressive and more so than 12 at 3k. that's not the point. The point I was saying which you can't understand w/o knowing what timing is, is this:
Effective timing drops as rpm climbs. How much? It depends, it varies based on many things. However, it does always drop. So you can add SOME timing as rpm climbs and be LESS aggressive despite having higher ignition timing.
And if this thread goes no where, I hope someone learns from this.
If you have an engine (and I'm using examples, not an actual tune), that runs 300 HP at 3k rpm with 15 deg of timing. You could in theory run 17 deg of timing at 6k rpm and have 290 HP. The motor would be less stressed at 6k rpm, even tho timing is higher. This is because effective timing is lower. You also have less torque at higher rpm so the components are stressed less until you reach rpms that can induce balance and inertia type failures. But the formula for that is the square of rpm so you are very safe a little ways below the rpm limit of the motor. At 290 HP, you are also stressing components less due to less HP. So to repeat, less effective timing, less torque, less HP, safer motor at 6k.
You are factually wrong and seeming to be happy to spread it. Be careful when you correct one of the best shops in the country for this stuff. Maybe you should approach it as a question so you don't spread the wrong info and look foolish.
"Zoom, does the car have less stress at 3k rpm with 300WHP than at 6k with the same HP"? and then I would respond as I am going to now.
The torque is exactly double in the 300 HP at 3k rpm than with 300 HP at 6k rpm. So the engine and clutch are stressed drastically more. In fact, the 3k rpm setup would have 525ft/lbs of torque and not many clutches will hold up to that. Taking it further, say you had 300 HP at 1500 rpm. Torque would be over 1000 and you'd twist the crank in 1/2, bend the rods and do other damage.
But here is where we get into torque/HP and I'm guessing that would cause a huge amount of chaos as no one even knows what that is. Those threads always get out of line in every car forum. I wish physics was more of a priority in school...
When you talk about rpm related failure, it gets into balancing and engine failures by other means, not usually HP but it's a moot point as the engine is designed to run at 6k in factory form.
How about you stop whining like a child and learn something? This forum is supposed to be fore learning which means someone has to have something to teach and someone needs to learn. Before ZZP these types are threads were the reason Cobalts were so embarrassing and threads were the mockery of the internet to other car owners.
You're confusing actual timing numbers with a concept of what timing is. You don't even understand what is happening in a motor so you just keep arguing about specific numbers or timing ramps. You've already gone from saying you didn't ramp timing to saying you did. Every post you just keep saying 'i know what I'm doing' w/o actually saying what you're doing. Saying you know what you're doing is hardly a technical answer.
-------------------
ON specific timing, of course 26 deg of timing at 6k is aggressive and more so than 12 at 3k. that's not the point. The point I was saying which you can't understand w/o knowing what timing is, is this:
Effective timing drops as rpm climbs. How much? It depends, it varies based on many things. However, it does always drop. So you can add SOME timing as rpm climbs and be LESS aggressive despite having higher ignition timing.
And if this thread goes no where, I hope someone learns from this.
If you have an engine (and I'm using examples, not an actual tune), that runs 300 HP at 3k rpm with 15 deg of timing. You could in theory run 17 deg of timing at 6k rpm and have 290 HP. The motor would be less stressed at 6k rpm, even tho timing is higher. This is because effective timing is lower. You also have less torque at higher rpm so the components are stressed less until you reach rpms that can induce balance and inertia type failures. But the formula for that is the square of rpm so you are very safe a little ways below the rpm limit of the motor. At 290 HP, you are also stressing components less due to less HP. So to repeat, less effective timing, less torque, less HP, safer motor at 6k.
Lulz as stated before red headed step child . Read read read.......... I do what the customers want lol....... You can show whatever you want dickwead... Firstoff you would have no proof its my yune. Second off I can do the same ****..... Shitfarts......
I said I would show customers what you are doing and what we do differently and why. It would be up to the customer if they wanted us to change anything. We have a dyno to show them the results of what we do. Since you are not changing all of the parameters required to optimize a tune, you're tunes are more aggressive timing/boost wise than they need to be for the power they are putting out.
As far as stealing goes, that would be what you do when you advertise or promote goods or services w/o being on this page: https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/supp...ct-list-22184/
As far as stealing goes, that would be what you do when you advertise or promote goods or services w/o being on this page: https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/supp...ct-list-22184/
james i'm sorry man youre a good friend but enough is enough. no more advertising your tuning or send speedlimit a message about becoming a vendor. i get pm's all the times and posts being reported about how its unfair to other vendors.
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