Did you proof read what you just said? What makes you think you can inteligently talk about what they can or cannot do? Don't you think GM has a dyno or test track? And don't you think GM has the engineering knowledge to get the maximum HP and torque that they KNOW the driveline will hold and still maintain the warranty. They could get another HUNDRED horsepower if they wanted to and weren't concerned with the rest of the driveline or warranty. Most of the owners of these cars are young people that have NO knowledge of what they are talking about. Just chrome it and make it loud with a turbo whistle too. That's the ticket!!

 

'intelligently' Is Spelled With 2 L's Not One, Try The Tools Icon Lol! And I Can Comment On This Because What Gm 'can' Do And What They 'will' Do Are 2 Different Stories. And As Far Gm Having A Dyno And Track And Tuning Some Random Ecotec They Have And Then Extrapolating That Tune From One Random Ecotec To 10,000 Others Doesn't Always Work. Talk To Cobb Tuning And Their Conservative Parameters For The Sti, Which I Previously Owned. A Little On The Fuel Curve, A Little Advancing Of Spark And Little Increase In Boost With Definite Boost Cut Parameters. Be Realistic Bro

 

'intelligently' Is Spelled With 2 L's Not One, Try The Tools Icon And I Can Comment On This Because What Gm 'can' Do And What They 'will' Do Are 2 Different Stories. And As Far Gm Having A Dyno And Track And Tuning Some Random Ecotec They Have And Then Extrapolating That Tune From One Random Ecotec To 10,000 Others Doesn't Always Work. Talk To Cobb Tuning And Their Conservative Parameters For The Sti, Which I Previously Owned. A Little On The Fuel Curve, A Little Advancing Of Spark And Little Increase In Boost With Definite Boost Cut Parameters. Be Realistic Bro

'intelligently' Is Spelled With 2 L's Not One, Try The Tools Icon And I Can Comment On This Because What Gm 'can' Do And What They 'will' Do Are 2 Different Stories. And As Far Gm Having A Dyno And Track And Tuning Some Random Ecotec They Have And Then Extrapolating That Tune From One Random Ecotec To 10,000 Others Doesn't Always Work. Talk To Cobb Tuning And Their Conservative Parameters For The Sti, Which I Previously Owned. A Little On The Fuel Curve, A Little Advancing Of Spark And Little Increase In Boost With Definite Boost Cut Parameters. I Want Power Too But Be Realistic Bro

 

wait a minute.... so you mean chrome and loud isnt what its all about....








****

 

...and here I was thinking this whole time the hokie pokie was what it was all about...

Wow I need to go to bed... now.

 

^i hear ya. When its late I say some stupid ****

 

Thanks for the spelling lesson. We now know what you're good at. Actually my spelling is pretty good. It's my TYPING that sucks. You see, I went to night school and they never turned on the lights. But, unlike you, I still don't know as much about tuning and extrapolating as GM does. You mean to tell me that if GM developes a tune on a test vehicle they can't duplicate that tune on a production vehicle? Come on!!! Get serious!!!You're pretty good with big words. I Googled "Cobb Tuning". That appears to be a class operation. What was it you previously owned? Cobb Tuning or an Sti? If it was the Sti, that shows where you're coming from. Your post speaks in vague terms that really don't relate to your first post. The fact is General Motors has the knowledge, experience, equipment and, until very recently, unlimited resources to design, develop and produce some of the worlds best performance automobiles available to the general public. Unfortunately our government has seen fit to stifle the creative abilities of GM with laws like CAFE, ever since the mid sixties. Other wise they might still be king of the road. I think that's all I want to say.

And, by the way, I don't have IeSpell on my computer. And why do you capitalize the first letter of every word? Kind of snobish, don't you think?

 

um anyways back on topic....

yeah Gm stage kit

wonder how its going to be. yeah.

 

Is the GM stage kit just 2 new MAP sensors and an ECU reflash? Why does it cost so much? $400 would get you an hour's worth of quality dyno time with an experienced tuner. I cannot see how a MAP sensor could cost over $100, even with the connectors. The only value I see in paying the $500-$600 for the GM kit is the potential to have everything covered under warranty if it is installed at the dealer.

 

I agree with the back on topic. I feel much better now that I have vented.

I just did some looking around (researched) and found some pretty generic MAP sensors. The going rate is $130 plus. But ours is not just a MAP sensor. It's also a Temperature sensor. I'm guessing that makes it a lot more expensive. Bosch makes them but you will NOT find a part number anywhere for them. The are also used on one model of Alfa Romeo. A guy on the Solstice called Bosch and got aA part number but was told, pretty much, to get a replacement sensor you have to turn in an old one. NOT a CORE charge. One for one plus money. They produce them as needed. There are so few of them used they don't stock pile them. Now don't get me wrong. This is what I read. And for the reasons stated I believe it. Obviously there are a lot of people looking for these things and I'm sure if anybody found them they could make a killing buying a bunch of them and reselling them on the Cobalt forum. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 horse power and maybe 80 or 90 ft# of torque is pretty good for $650. Ten there is the BIG item. The warranty. These upgrades and the cars they're installed in (by a dealer) are still warrantied for 5 years. Not bad for that money in my estimation.

 

Very true. 400 dollars more a couple hundred dollars in sensors and a warranty is worth it to me.

 

I'm not sure how the stock F35/MU3 can handle the added torque from the LNF with the GM upgrade and still carry the factory warranty, unless GM really beefed up the clutch and internals from the get-go?

 

the clutch is capable of 320 Hp from what I heard.

internals are good to go

 

The MSRP on the pigtails is ~$118/each through the service dept.

What you are really paying for is not the parts, its the time it took to develop and validate this tune/kit to retain the warranty.

 

The 3 bar map sensor is $82.00 ish plus shipping!

 

Unfortunately, The 3 bar map will not work with the current OS. Unless HP Tuners can determine what GM did to allow for the greater range of those sensors. That and tuning for higher flow injectors (and the injectors themselves) and we are in business. I can forsee 26-28 psi GT37R LNF making 500+ whp if, and when, that all comes together.

 

It'd be great if they could use the new MAP sensors from the get-go and just sell the tune in the upgrade kit.

 

Found some more very interesting stuff. At least it's interesting to me. Hope I don't get kicked off by posting a Solstice forum page.
Enjoy.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...-review-52407/

WAIT11 There's more.

1 - 11589015 Bolt Tmap Sensor
2 - 88988320 Connector Sen-MAP w/ leads
2 - 12626998 O-Ring T-MAP
2 - 55206797 Sensor T-MAP (Bosch Part # 0 281 002 845, supposed to be used on Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTD)

 

there is also a premium fuel label that the put on the inside of the gas cap, can't forget about that

 

I'm surprised GM didn't make the SS/TC Flex Fuel for added power potential.

 

If anybody really wants to get inside this upgrade look in HP Tuners forum. But be prepared for some good news and some bad news. This stuff will scramble your brain. Post #95 in particular.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=155551

 

chances are the corrosive properties of E85 didn't mix well with SIDI injectors

 

Check out page 3. The GM engineer "Flash's Owner" has some good information about how the performance upgrade kit works in relation to the stock tune/software.

 

I'm telling you. This is, or should be, all anybody needs to know about the electronic engine controlls and how to defeat them. Or not. Great explanation of the "learn down" feature in the ECU. Kinda takes some of the wind out of the sails for some on the forum. I'm glad I waited.

 

well i have to apologize for being over educated concerning my diction. maybe just let people have their 'ntellectual' opinions on things and let it be. you wouldn't need to vent if you did that. sometimes you don't need light to see... anyway back to topc, with stage kit. I just think that every cobalt's parameters concerning ecu and ignition, fuel, boost are all varying. look at hp/torque numbers for cabalt ss's on the same dyno. Cobb tuning offered their accessport with stage 1 (for no other mods needed and about 20 whp) and stage 2 on that unit offered about 30 whp with other supporting mods such a full turbo back. As far as the gm kit, I would be happy with an additional 40 hp to the crank with just that intake tube and similiar numbers for torque. 650 for the gm kit does'nt seem all that bad, considering the accessport was 700. too bad gm couldn't offer the OBD port plug in adapter and let us owners do it ourselves, but they can make loot with the installation