I know what it's "function" is. Stating a fact, it's ugly. So? I don't see this doing much over the 1320. Most people have stock engines and the 1320 is perfect for them. You can bolt on and get over 300hp to the wheels with the 1320 and it's safe, will the 1900 do that? I know it will make more power but will it be as safe or safer? More volume at lower psi could be great, but, lag...

 

I'm not expert...but can't they both flow like ****?
I haven't tested it , i haven't done any foot work, but i mean...just look at the thing , there's nothing about it that looks like it could flow that kind of air flow. Look at all the LSJ-t guys , they ditch the thing. I'm pretty Mr. Hahan has even mentioned how poorly it flows. I just have a really hard time believing it can flow 550whp worth of air let alone cool it even with meth.

 

The factory intake would be modified for better flow and cooling on a high hp build.

 

No. They dont both flow like ****.

The stock head is the major cork in flow.

 

doesn't take much more than matching the intake mani to head ports up and smoothing out the casting to get it flowing decently better, but its objectional that smoothing out the casting along the laminovas can decrease its cooling ability

 

there has been a lsjt on the stock manifold make close to 500hp you need to look at the whole picture and as to why the head is the cork i wouldent take mr hahans word as gospel

yup i agree

yup

the manifold runner is smaller then the head for a reason and should be left smaller for a reason you dont want port misalignment creating turblant airflow into the head thats why the manifold port is always smaller and should be left that way the main porting if any is done should be done on the core openings

 

You high Kevin?

 

It is legal out here

 

I've heard that porting the core openings can cause more problems than it solves if done incorrectly. It is my understanding that GM designed those laminova openings in a specific pattern specifically to enhance the cooling effect of the cores. Sure you can increase flow through the cores but wouldnt that also sacrifice how much heat they can remove at any given time?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick by hammering the subject ...but haven't most PH/ cam builds been kinda lack luster, I mean there were gains but not amazing gains. And it looks like quite a few people have made 500+ on stock heads and cams fairly easily where as it looks like the supercharged guys, (TVS, MP90, twin screw ,1900 ect) all seem to struggle to break 370ish (even with PH). I'm a little rusty on fluid dynamics , but i know sharp turns = bad and the LSJ manifold is composed of nothing but sharp turns. but ...as i said i have no first first hand experience I'm just an observer.

 

Doesn't have anything to do with ported heads or cams or intake manifold design, has more to do with the fact that superchargers will just never flow the same as a turbo, not to mention the fact that they rob power as they make it. You have to think, every time you increase the blower speed, pressure gradient in the manifold, or increase the size and weight of the blower (for instance this TVS1900) it takes more and more energy to drive it through the belt system. Eaton stated years ago that (when properly sized and run at the rated speed) their 3rd generation superchargers would use anywhere from 8-10% of an engine's crank hp to drive the supercharger at its peak RPM. Any modification you do to the blower increases this parasitic draw exponentially. That is why the power gains become less and less significant the faster you spin a blower, M62 for example, not to mention they also become less efficient. Turbo's work entirely differently, they efficiently use engine waste to generate power, they push more CFM and they have no parasitic draw.

 

This

Thats the downside to instant power. It has to use some power, to make power. Superchargers are not as efficient as turbochargers...but they make power on demand better than turbos do.

 

Still doesnt change the fact that I absolutely love superchargers. lol Easy to install, easy to maintain, easy to tune and dat whine.

 

At times i miss my LSJ cause the whine was nice.

 

Tuning the wg on the turbo LNFs is a ton of fun though.

 

Until I made 370whp myself, I would never call that lack luster by any means.

With 370whp a good driver should dip into the high 11's. That's quick no matter how you look at it.

Everyone on this site is soo focused on dyno queen numbers.

 

I am well aware that Turbos are (generally )more efficient than supercharges. Also turbo are not magic there is still parasitic loss associated with them. I am also aware of the law of diminishing returns and how it plays into supercharging. My argument isn't so much about supercharging as much as it is weather or not you can flow enough air through the stock manifold(stock as in the overall design of it baring porting and such) to make decent numbers. 1200+CFM is alot of air to move .

 

I didn't mean it that way. i'd be happy with far less, What i meant was , the head is pointed at as being the bottle neck, but once people go ported head the gains in power are only a marginal improvement but aren't exponentially better than the stock head. 370 is plenty of power i was merely talking about the gain from ported vs non ported.

 

My 370whp setup honestly did some serious work on the street, and with a little better track prep for a better 60' it would have been good for high 11's rather than the 12.2 @119. It was a riot. A little more power will be even more fun while retaining the same feel of the car. My setup now is a lot more fun and makes 200+ more whp, but its not for everyone.

 

I don't think it fair that anyone says that the factory LSJ intake mani is a restriction or won't flow xx amount with out at least something to back that up beside "I mean come on, look at that thing"

 

gm did not design the manifold it was done over seas from what i have found is the couple of people that tried a ported manifold said that they lost 1hp and 5ftlbs of tq(air speed thing) and then pulled the manifold right back off for those reasons no one mentiond of they dropped pulley size or messed with the tune that much either but the did say that the iat2 did drop so all in all there really has been nothing really concrete on the matter but if you look at the 1 guy years ago that used the stock manifold with a turbo and put down 450 or more hp again the manifold is not the problem

the reason why you dont see this oh wow when people swap cams on a blower car and an lnf is the head the reason why you dont see them make anymore power then on stock cams but they make the same power easier and that is due to a change in lobe seperation angle the lift and duration has very little to do with it for a paticular reason there is a reason why gm made 1400hp on not much pressure

 

i will be flowing a brand new intake manifold then cutting it open and porting it and reflowing it on the same flow bench

 

So close to spilling the beans

 

I'm really interested in what you find.

I also want to learn more on how and why the ported heads and cams don't produce enough to improve on that. I'm at the point where we'll need to do the head next and don't want to have to do things twice or learn i could have done something different.

I have an idea but need more info and learning LOL

 

Better flow from cams even the mild stage 1 cams ZZP has for the LNF even with stock heads, etc drops boost pressure 2-3 psi and increases corrected mass airflow along with the pressure drop.