car is back now...butt dyno says im right

what your not factoring in, is that after 1st gear, if your driving to use the power (not just cruising around in which case it wont matter) youll be in the higher power band again....you wont be using anything sub 3-3.5k rpm, so you want the power from there to the top rather then from 0-5500

on a DD you are right...on anything else you are not. call dan and talk to him, i spoke with him about this thread last night and he confirms everything ive said

and as for NOT loosing power above 5500rpm...where is your proof? mine was in my dyno, my dyno nose dived up top...not platued...but dove down and lost power, you could feel it while driving too. dan rode in my car last night...and i gar he will agree it pulls all the way to the top.

 

put a solid mount will kill your DD

flywheel will free up hp like you says. IT free hp hp and lost torque.
dont you prefere a 350hp 250tq or a 250hp and 350tq.
i ve seen a YTube with two s2000. the s2000 with 350hp beat so hard the other
i will this video asap
hp ftw

only thing that give real hp the cams

 

Okay.. So you're telling me this is your driving style. *Red light*.. *Green light*.. WOT 1st.. WOT 2nd.. WOT 3rd.. *Red light* If not, you've just disproved your own argument.

You're missing the point dude, that's usable power!!! Maybe you prefer the track and you want your car built for track, not street, but usable power is where you spend more time, and last time I checked, I bet you use it on the street more than the track, and don't drive like I said above, all the time.

Yeah, of course he agreed, you have him a biased opinion to form an answer from.

Where did it drop on the dyno? What RPM? And I don't care if it pulls "all the way" The point is, you lost TQ down low and in the mid, for 2HP up top, and a different power band.

It is not freeing up hp/tq you NEVER had. It is freeing up AVAILABLE hp/tq.

How will a solid motor mount kill a DD, explain.

 

why do i need power down low on the street? the car has enough power down low to get me a-b, in fact it still has more then stock down low. but even if i race on the street instead of the track, i have it in the higher rpms

no need for gobs of power where i wont really use it.

 

you get closer to your whp this part wont procedure hp.


cabine vibration. how my ride is more uncomfortable. did you ride with as elecblue did

if on dont have a solid mount is because i dont want more cabine vib.

just buy your 4-2-1 and stop argue. we all know your point and it find.

i found a 3 '' downpide for xtc. is that **** nice quality tom

probably XXXXXX4XXXXXX race between 1200rpm and 4000rpm then shift to be in is low torque powerband

that is his choice.

i know why tom. i want pull his 45' boat with his cobalt. he need more low torque to pull ta ****.

 

It's not gobs of power dude, damn. Like I said, yeah, your new 4-1 probably pulls harder past 5,500.. I wouldn't doubt it. Like I said, it's a 2hp TOPS difference, and a moved power band. It's not like you gained tons of power with it.

I don't care if dan says, or you say, or your brother's boyfriend's sister says, or whoever.

You pick up a book and read how exhaust manifolds alter the flow of gasses, and the difference between and 4-1 and 4-2-1, which works better on a small displacement motor.

The only proof you've given me is a dyno, and because dan says so. And yes, the dyno might say you gained power here or picked up a few hp here, but that does not mean it is the best for the motor. Sacrificing a few peak hp for a different part might make all of the difference.

I don't care about cabin vibration. It helps wheel hop way more than a tq damper.

A 3" DP is too big.

I don't have a boat. I like my low tq so I can talk **** to dyno/track queens like you, who are only concerned with their track time/who has the highest hp.

There is nothing wrong with arguing as long as it's fair, no hard feelings.

 

that is fair body name my a queen on track when im the king of it mouahahaha


i not jalous about your low and mid torque. i play with wrx it not your little mid and low that we ll give me a chance to be weld to this WRX

ok you tried a 3'' DP to says something like that

 

Give me a reason to justify getting a 3" DP and I'll give you a rebuttal.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

two peas in a pod we are


and i havent heard of XTC products...not sure how nice that would be.

 

150 canadian money. i need to try it. if not sell it if i dont like the ''low torque and mid torque'' i will trow it to the reclycling.

little tommiiiiis has it on his ride and pull more hp.


is the mustand dyno vs dynojet give less number but on street it the same


ok you look to be a smart guy that know everything. what you learn at school will you make you a good worker.

what you learn in a book or on internet can be a big marge in real life


exemple: im a technicien in wood processing. i learn how to grade a piece a wood. but i learn to grade it for 20 second and more. but in reality you a less than a seconde to grade it.

in car domain, people saiy to big for N/A. but when you try it and feeling is there, here you go.

 

books dont mean **** vs practical application. not only does the expert (you know...the people who work with this stuff for a living....) agree with me, but so does my dyno, and my experiance...what more do you need


my car is by no means a track queen...there is NO practical application for a car like ours to have low end tq...you can launch it higher and NEVER touch that part of your power band, so why waste it there? exactly...no reason at all.
I would agree with you if it were a case of me just platueing up top...not building anything but not loosing it either....but im LOOSING power up top with the 4-2-1 header...as in, it goes DOWN and isnt practical, so at that point in faced with A: shift into another gear and be way out of power band still (because as much as the 4-2-1 is better down below then the 4-1, its still worse then being higher in the power band) or B: stay in the same gear and pretty much gain not much at all...
it makes more sense to put the 4-1 on there and make power where you can use it...we dont build these cars so that you have a few hp and can cruise at low rpms better or pull up that hill in low rpm better...we make them to make the most usable power...period....wherever that is in the powerband. It just so happens that unless you boost this car, the best way to make power is to sacrifice it down below (where you really dont need it AT ALL) and build way more power up top...because its not just about "you only gain 2 hp from 5500-7500 rpm...its that you CARRY that power to 7500 rpm and CONTINUE to speed up rather then slow the acceleration.

In the end, it makes no sense AT ALL once youve done this much stuff to your car N/A wise to go with the 4-2-1, your wasting the money you put into the car...PERIOD!

you can argue that all you want, but the pure hard facts show this to be true

 

yes and no. a 4-2-1 is better than my lsj HD and 4-1 is better than 4-2-1, in my case. he dont want optimal higher rpm and it ok. it a hard decision to take. 4-1 or 4-2-1 you have to adapt your downpipe or change it.

 

with the setup im running you have to use a custom dp...maybe ill get pics this weekend....

 

There is no reason for a 3" DP, period. Boosted cars run a 3", you're not making anywhere NEAR that power. 2.5" is more than enough for any power you're going to make on n/a. Trust me. We can argue back and forth about a header all day, but not a 3" DP.

THAT IS WHERE I DRAW THE LINE HUCKER!!!

Okay, so, my build:

Intake
Header (1 5/8" primaries)
DP (2.5")
Cat-back (2.5")
2.4 TB
2.4 Intake manifold
Trifecta

You say 4-1?

It is a hard decision.

How so?

 

yes, 4-1 would be great, as long as you size the primaries, dp, and exhaust right (and your about right there) you should be ok, youll keep that low end tq your looking for and still be able to build up top. the problem with the 4-2-1 is that it just doesnt stop you from building MORE power, it keeps you from carrying the power through to the end of the power band. its great for sc cars that have power from 0rpm...but anyone else pretty much at all has to build to that 2500-3500 powerband start...and it doestn make sense to put power down low (wont make enough of a diff there) and then also not be able to use it up top.
honestly though, for your build, you could go either way. for me the definate change to 4-1 point is the stg 2 cam (or bigger is more so) because it shifts your powerband so much and at such drastic amounts (highs are much higher lows are much lower) that you HAVE to play into the hand youve delt yourself or you have wasted money.
If you dont plan on racing it pretty much at all (even on the street) and you just want something that will be a quick dd and not loose your low end tq (pretty much ONLY good for going up hills and not downshifting ) then i would go 4-2-1....anything else, even if you think you might race...i would go with a longtube 1 5/8th" 4-1 header....

 

What do you mean size the primaries right, dp and exhaust? I'm right about there?

1 5/8" primaries
2.5" dp-back

I mean.. Is there anything better?

I do plan to race, yes on the street.

 

lets see some videos xxxxxxxxx

if i buy that DP 3'' it may because i have plan to boost it in the future. for 150$ is a deal. it my bussiness to try that or not. try and error you know that.

waitang for ź time. let see how your mid low range will do on ź.

 

Don't need videos, not a camera *****. Don't care.

Yeah, if you plan to boost, sure. I assumed you were staying n/a, in which case you'd never need 3".

I don't run at the track, bro. Don't care. It's a DD. I just want what makes me more power on the street.

 

yeah for now it NA but who knows what ill happen with.

i want see how your rpm is doing. why not a video of your cluster.

 

Where the hell is NightHawk?

 

he gave up

 

HAHA!! Well he got me with the paragraph above!!

 

Yes you do care.

 

aparently cause he is still talking


and im alive, we are down to one computer, so im not on as much on the weekends

 

I care about the parts on my car, obviously, but I could care less how fast/slow it is, and negative comments.

Thanks!